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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Cam chain replacing instructions, /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1173305128 Message started by justin_o_guy on 03/07/07 at 14:05:28 |
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Title: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by justin_o_guy on 03/07/07 at 14:05:28 I know they are here & there must be adozen threads on it. I would like it quite a bit if someone could point me to the most clear & concise instructions. The Suzuki Shp manual just says, replace it if it's worn. Uh huhh,, I need step by step instructions,, Oh, btw, while I had the pipe off the thing I added 6 baffles to the 8 already in the Supertrapp. I was expecting a loud racket, but No, sounds mellow & the Downlow is a bit stouter. Topped out at 85 tho. I am ordering a pilot jet tonight. gonna stick a 50 in it. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Greg_650 on 03/07/07 at 14:37:17 justin_o_guy wrote:
Not to dodge your question, but if you have the SSM, it incorporates the chain replacement into the whole teardown of the engine. As such that means that you reassemble it in the reverse order of the teardown using the checks, settings and tolerances as you go. I can give you a step by step if you want, but if you really want to learn how to do it, then you only have to follow the teardown steps and then you'll know. If you do it that way, maybe ask a question if you're stumped, then you'll actually learn how, much better. Here's a hint... http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/TDCTimingMarks_1760.jpg http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/CamGearTDC_1581.jpg |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Greg_650 on 03/07/07 at 14:38:58 Oh yeah, my spouse's Trapp with 14 disks sounds good and has a nice low end grunt too. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by justin_o_guy on 03/07/07 at 20:31:27 Wow, I was looking for a section strictly addressing the cam chain. Is there a simple way to solve the holding the "Clutch sleeve hub nut" page 3-12 second pic down? My first thought would be to stick the end of a belt between the gear teeth to bind it up would work? |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Greg_650 on 03/07/07 at 20:54:00 justin_o_guy wrote:
You'd be surprised how those bevel gears will chew things up. That belt will just squish right out. Got a penny, piece of brass or aluminum (that's what I used a couple weeks ago). The bad part is that you can't get the primary drive gear off without removing the primary driven gear first. The gear won't go past the clutch basket. The clutch has to come off first...and there is a trick to the clutch (actually, a special tool, but I get around that). 2 pairs of vise grips, a pipe, a 32 mm socket and breaker bar are my special tool ;D Be careful that you don't break any clutch parts if you go to rigging something, but once you loosen the clutch nut, you still gotta use the clutch gear (and penny) to remove the primary gear...unless you want to open the other side and hold the crankshaft :P http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/EngineRightSide_1511.jpg |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Greg_650 on 03/07/07 at 21:17:47 Oh yeah...I logged out but I came back just for this question. :P Do you know which way the primary drive nut turns? |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Max_Morley on 03/07/07 at 21:30:53 As Max said in a previous post on this topic, a good air wrench set to remove will crack the crank gear into about 6 pieces and have you spent time and meney to insure the primary drive gear is still OK. It is left hand thread !! to loosen and a couple pennies between the primary gear and clutch gear will jam them enough w/o damage to let you get the nut loose or retorque it, NO AIR WRENCH THIS TIME. torque wrench only please. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Greg_650 on 03/07/07 at 21:34:34 Max_Morley wrote:
Hey there Max. We must be the last ones up :) I think you just said about the same thing I did above, but some of us ain't so fancy with all them air powered tools like you :P I guess you can tell...... |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by justin_o_guy on 03/07/07 at 21:59:39 Thanks for the heads up on the impact. I don't see what's wrong with doing that, as long as it's set to tighten a regular nut, this one should come on off. I saw it's left hand thread. I don't see me pulling the other cover & holding the crank, since my arms aren't all that long & I don't expect to pull the engine. I think I can find 2 pennies. I will turn them over to reassemble. I guess I better get a torque wrench. My 1/2 inch Proto is just too big & clunky for bike work. A 3/8ths el cheapo bar style or a no kidding click type? |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by verslagen1 on 03/07/07 at 22:37:30 What about splitting the chain at the top (keeping the chain engaged with the gear) splicing in the new chain and slowly turning the engine to pull the chain all the way through? You'd have to pull the cover to back off the tensioner, but it would save you from taking every thing apart. 2 people could pull this off and save alot of time. ;D |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Greg_650 on 03/08/07 at 04:54:35 justin_o_guy wrote:
Be sure to use the torque wrench on the release plate bolts when you put the clutch back together, too. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Greg_650 on 03/08/07 at 04:55:57 verslagen1 wrote:
What a concept. I like it. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Max_Morley on 03/08/07 at 10:05:34 Except where are you going to find a master link for that small size chain and do you really want a master link (the weak point) in a cam drive chain? See Greg's pics of the valve head on the top of the piston. 2nd how are you going to peen over the rivet you cut the head off and pushed out when to open the new chain ! Max |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Greg_650 on 03/08/07 at 10:42:10 Max_Morley wrote:
Details, details....it's the thought that counts :P Just think of it, when the chain stretches, you just take out a link and then put in a half link. Good to go. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by justin_o_guy on 03/08/07 at 11:23:55 I would like to get some liquid nitrogen & give the chain about a week long bath & see how that affects the service life. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by verslagen1 on 03/08/07 at 11:28:51 I thought a chain would be by any other name still be a chain. :-/ My uncle says he does this all the time... must work for something. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by rokrover on 03/08/07 at 11:43:31 Sheldon Brown, the great Guru of bicycle mechanics, has some interesting observations about chain "stretch" http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html Cyclists often speak of chain "stretch", as if the side plates of an old chain were pulled out of shape by the repeated stresses of pedaling. This is not actually how chains elongate. The major cause of chain "stretch" is wearing away of the metal where the rivet rotates inside of the bushing (or the "bushing" part of the inside plate) as the chain links flex and straighten as the chain goes onto and off of the sprockets. If you take apart an old, worn out chain, you can easily see the little notches worn into the sides of the rivets by the inside edges of the bushings. ===================== Now the Suzuki uses a "Hy-Vo" type chain and there's some interesting stuff here about their wear: http://www.epi-eng.com/GBX-ChainDrv.htm Seems the Suzuki chain is is a weak link (pun intended) in the design! |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Greg_650 on 03/08/07 at 12:22:14 Interesting explanation. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Greg_650 on 03/08/07 at 12:30:48 verslagen1 wrote:
I think that a chain is a chain.... Even if it is a stretched chain, or if it is an old chain. Even if it is a broken chain, or if it is a cold chain. Even if it is a tire chain, or if it is a gold chain. But not when it is a cam chain. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by allan on 03/09/07 at 10:05:57 Greg_650 wrote:
yes you can buts its fiddlly & frustrating, try rocking them against each other, allan. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Greg_650 on 03/09/07 at 12:42:57 allan wrote:
How do you rock them? |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by allan on 03/09/07 at 13:46:48 Greg_650 wrote:
undo the nut as described (lefty) pull the gear as far of the splines as you can, gear will now be at an angle rock the clutch easing the gear out at the same time, like i said its fiddly and doesn't always come straight off but with patience it will, greg I'm sure with your knowledge you'll be slipping it off in seconds once you have the feal. allan. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Greg_650 on 03/10/07 at 07:35:34 I guess that it's the "rocking the clutch" that's missing me. Is that the same as "rotating slightly" or "wiggling in and out"? Is the clutch nut still tight? I'll certainly check when I start reassembly...'cause as you can see in the picture some of the primary gear teeth are definitely behind the clutch basket. Hmmm.... |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by allan on 03/10/07 at 09:15:30 sorry Greg its probably the lost in translation bit rotate the clutch back & forwards a little, clutch is still fastened up, ;) allan. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Greg_650 on 03/10/07 at 11:05:58 allan wrote:
It's not the translation...especially since I doubt there is any definition for "rocking the clutch" anyway :P I'll look closer but it didn't seem possible to me when I was there. I could be wrong...so I'll look again. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Kropatchek on 03/11/07 at 09:41:00 allan wrote:
Have heard that trick before, removal of the primairy gear from behind the clutch gear. Have not tried though as I have removed both. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Dynobob on 03/11/07 at 10:13:28 justin_o_guy wrote:
A bigger pilot jet won't help your topend. You need a bigger main jet. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by justin_o_guy on 03/11/07 at 11:03:17 I know, I knew as soon as I posted that that I had worded it so folks would thnk I needed more info. I've rejetted to a 150 main. I tried to pull the pilot & the edge chipped off. I may just ride it as is. Sorry for the confusion & thanks for the response. |
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Title: How do i know when to replace the cam chain Post by grim on 03/21/07 at 02:43:55 ??? I just bought the bike with 34k miles. Who knows if it has been done. I will be opening the bike up to replace all the gaskets so hoping to get some insight into what to look for. Thanks |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by verslagen1 on 03/21/07 at 07:00:57 Greg, got a picture of penny in the gear trick? |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Greg_650 on 03/21/07 at 10:00:59 verslagen1 wrote:
Ya know, I never thought that view would be of any particular interest to anyone...hmmm, have to remember that on the reverse side.... I have done it, but this last time I grabbed a piece of scrap aluminum that was handy. It actually mashed up so nicely that it was hard to get back out. But it worked :P You can use any soft metal...I've used some brass shim stock that I folded up a couple times for extra thickness. I did try a piece of wood once, and found the gears are much much harder...not a good choice :) |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Greg_650 on 03/21/07 at 10:17:49 I'm still having a hard time seeing the primary drive coming out of there...but I'll look at it again... Was it done with the older 68 to 36 gear ratio or this one at 67 to 37? http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/PrimaryGears_1511.jpg |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by verslagen1 on 03/21/07 at 11:55:57 BTW: Greg, those are Helical gears not Bevel. Bevel gears are used to transmit motion to different axis orientation, most common 90°. Helical gear axis are parallel. The intent is to have continuous contact between the two gears to reduce impact stress. ;D |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by allan on 03/21/07 at 12:39:24 Greg_650 wrote:
4 speed box Greg have not tried on 5 speed so you may be right, allan. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Greg_650 on 03/21/07 at 13:15:01 verslagen1 wrote:
My arms must have been too short :P Yes, you're very right. The bevel gears would be on the speedo drive. I'll just call them those "angled toothy things" from now on...unless they are straight cut, of course. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Greg_650 on 03/21/07 at 13:19:22 allan wrote:
How's that for a guess? It just happened to dawn on me about the primary gear changes. The 4 speed would have a smaller primary drive and larger primary driven...as long as the clutch basket stayed the same size (I guess it did), there might be more clearance. I'll still check it again anyway. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by applespeed on 08/19/07 at 19:58:09 allan wrote:
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/20/07 at 00:30:30 Poking a penny in works I know, but the idea just bugs me a bit, so , since there was an old belt handy, it got folded & jammed in the gears. It cut it some, then bound up & the nut came loose. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by Savage_Greg on 08/20/07 at 11:29:11 This is how I do it.... ...and no primary gears were harmed in this demonstration :P http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/Primary_Gear_Tool_1.jpg A simple piece of scrap aluminum is good for your toolbox. http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/Primary_Gear_Tool_2.jpg And you need the correct socket... http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/Primary_Gear_Socket.jpg And the hardest part was holding the torque wrench steady at 80 lb/ft while operating the shutter release... http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/Primary_Gear_Torque.jpg |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/19/07 at 22:12:37 Greg_650 wrote:
I tried your penny idea today. Didn't work, it ate the penny :o . |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by verslagen1 on 09/20/07 at 11:53:04 It ate it? must of been hungry. ;D try stacking up 2 |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/20/07 at 13:41:34 yeah, that's what I figured too, so I used an old driver bit instead. Apparently it wasn't hungry enough to eat that. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/20/07 at 14:58:16 Yoni, I believe the idea is to use something that cant mar the gear face. Thats why I went with the leather. I KNOW in my head copper & aluminum cant hurt the gear, but if I can make it work without anything hard enough to put a lump on my head going in between gears, I will do it that way. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/20/07 at 15:11:50 The old driver bit worked like a charm and it didn't even damage the gear teeth. ;D |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by oksavage on 06/13/08 at 22:01:25 I got my new chain a few days ago and put it in a bath of oil until I could get to it. As I read this I'm thinking holy crap I have no idea what some of this stuff is. How hard is this really? I'm pretty handy but why do you need a torque wrench for the removal? Obviously this looks easier than it is? Also, many of the step by step pics are missing from the posts. Any help or suggestions will be appreciated. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain replacing instructions, Post by verslagen1 on 06/13/08 at 22:21:49 You don't need a torque wrench for disassembly, will need one for assy. Want it to go smoothly? replace all the bolts. Most likely 1 or more bolts will shear off. Got manual? |
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