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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> did the ton /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1171494300 Message started by john1652 on 02/14/07 at 15:05:00 |
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Title: did the ton Post by john1652 on 02/14/07 at 15:05:00 what does that mean???? if it means doing 100mph and doing it on a Savage I would have a real hard time believing that. I seem to hit the top around 85 mph or is it kph. now I could believe that. maybe 100mph on the salt flats with the guy from worlds fastest indian driving it. or possibly 100 while we are dreaming at night. or possibly when we are at the world championship b.s. contest. but never, i say never in real life. john |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Ed_L. on 02/14/07 at 15:38:56 Top speed so far with my '02 is 95 mph on a long straight flat road. Even with a small windshield laid almost flat I need better aerodynamics to go any faster. Maybe if I took off the saddle bags I'd hit the ton ;D |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by KenGLong on 02/14/07 at 16:10:56 Don't know if I'll ever make it up there. I have two strikes against me right off. One, I'm at 5000 ft and, two, I weigh 235 lbs. Ken |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by LANCER on 02/14/07 at 17:00:27 Oh yes, the Savage will do it if you treat it right and massage the right parts the right way. It loves to be messaged. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by vroom1776 on 02/14/07 at 17:09:39 one could also drop it from an airplane. mine does 100 mph: http://w1.bikepics.com/pics/2006%5C05%5C25%5Cbikepics-595010-800.jpg |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/14/07 at 20:17:14 LANCER wrote:
I weigh about 150. Went with the 20 pound lighter Jardine muffler, rejetted,solo seat, and if I lay on the tank with a tail wind it is maxed out at 80mph and ready to blow up. Like I said the newer model gear ratios suck. I'm doing cosmetics now, but will change the final drive to chain when I'm done. I have a 05 Royal Enfield 500cc Bullet that has a higher top speed and less rpm at 75 than the Savage. It just doesn't have the fast acceleration of the Suzi. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by verslagen1 on 02/14/07 at 21:58:10 Mine has a 22" windshield and it'll do 80 in a heart beat. And feels like there is more to be had. By the way, 77 is 5000 rpm. And I'm 240. So my bike can haul more a$$ than yours! naner naner naner! But I have the red light set at 80 so I don't exheed my capabilities. When I'm confident I know all the parts to rub in just the right way, I'll go for it. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Savage_Rob on 02/15/07 at 06:26:14 hutch wrote:
Well, at 215 lbs. on my '98 Savage I've done 88 MPH )indicated) and she felt like she had more to give. I haven't tried to max her yet. I specified "indicated" because I have a larger than stock rear tire, which means I was actually going faster than the speedo indicated. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by thumperclone on 02/15/07 at 06:36:58 spurts of 85 are enuf for me tho feels there is more there..but at those speeds "aint cruisen no more" ::) |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/15/07 at 08:02:56 Only been to 85 on 2 different times. That's all that I needed. Got to 117 on my fully faired Yam 850 one time. I'm too old for that now. I know that IF I lived through a crash, that recovery would take a very long time. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Ed_L. on 02/15/07 at 08:05:46 Well I don't get it, the mods on my '02 are pretty much middle of the road with a 152.5 main, drilled baffle sportster muffler, K+N drop in air filter and a drilled out airbox door but even with my 215lb butt on the bike I've seen 95 mph twice. Now what's got me puzzled is that there are a lot of other savages out there that are lighter with larger jetting and better exhaust flow but can't seem to get up to the speeds I'm getting to. Are there that much difference between bikes ??? cause I know I'm not throwing any BS around. ;D |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/15/07 at 08:16:10 Ed_L. wrote:
No BS here. I know that mine has more power to go at 85. The Raask really helps breathing at top end. I just got her up there to satisfy my own curiosity, and then quit. The deficiency was me :) |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by thumperclone on 02/15/07 at 08:38:28 got the sport shield and i opted out @ 85, gettin too old |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Ed_L. on 02/15/07 at 09:06:51 Yeah, I was in a bit of a pucker when I got over 90mph. At 53 I've discovered that I'm not indestructable and the road looks real hard when going that fast. On a normal ride 80 is as fast as I like to go. Ain't it a b1tch getting old |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by slavy on 02/15/07 at 09:39:02 There is always a mistake in the speedo and usualy it shows more. On my '01 with gutted HD pipe , Edelbrok, and tall HD bars the speedo was showing just a tad below 100. I did not keep it this way because the gas-mileage wasn't good. My wife's '00 has baffled SE II, has the original carb/slightly modified/ , and the original bars and goes 95mph if I can believe the speedo. I like her's more because of the sound and because it makes a little more than 50 mpg in the city. I've had couple of early models and they were going no more than 85-86 mph. I never tried to squeeze higher speeds from them. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/15/07 at 20:38:03 Well I guess john1652 and I just got lemons or something??? Mine is an 06, 152main , 55 pilot ,full spacer with full spacer, KN drop in and Jardine muffler. I has no pops or backfires. Plug is light gray. 55mpg. Acelerates like a rocket. No clutch slip and without a tach I don't no what the RPMS are at 80 but she is wound real tight and the throttle has been wound as far as it will go for a while with no more pick up in sight. There is no slop in the throttle cable either. I have been riding and building bikes for over 40 years so I now I haven't missed anything. The very first post I ever put up in November was about no top end on my bike and that was why I wanted to go to chain drive. Like I said I drag raced a 1200 Sporster and stomped it until 70 mph. Other people said they could only beat 883 Sporsters up to 60mph. That is why I'm out of top end faster, all I have is sheer take off. No top end. It is geared like a drag car. The farthest I have ever drove it was 10 miles on the interstate, and I had to keep it down to 60mph so it wasn't just screaming RPMS like when I pushed it to 70+. Haven't been on the interstate since. When I'm in 5th gear at 55-60 and back off the gas it doesn't slow down gradually, it backs down like it is in 4th. I can be in 5th and hit the gas and it will take off with about the same aceleration as any of the other gears but is wound tight at 80MPH. Your guess is as good as mine. I don't know how much John weighs, but it sounds like his 07 is like my 06. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by verslagen1 on 02/15/07 at 21:23:36 Hutch, you sure it's going into 5th? Mine's real happy at 60, just purrs like a big cat. Get a tach and make sure it's shifting. I have a Veypor VR1, it tells me everything. Tach, gear ratios, speed. If I update the program, even a gas gage. Had to have it cause I couldn't see the speedo and the road at the same time. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by LANCER on 02/16/07 at 05:00:00 verslagen1 wrote:
Handy little device, isn't it? |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by mornhm on 02/16/07 at 05:38:51 For Hutch and John and others, my Savage (04) wouldn't really run well on the interstate either (stock). I had trouble in headwinds passing semi's etc. I'm not sure what top speed was with no head wind on a cool day, probably around 85. However that speed felt like the engine and suspension was really being tested (which I suppose top speed should be doing). I wouldn't want to ride any distance at that speed on a Savage. I believe people with modified Savages have run legit "tons," not with a stock Savage based on my experience, too much wind resistance, not enough motor. My current MC runs 100 mph easy and doesn't feel unsafe at that speed. Also it has plenty of additional hp on tap at the right hand at that speed. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Savage_Rob on 02/16/07 at 06:01:30 I really think that a properly adjusted windshield makes a big difference here too. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by mornhm on 02/16/07 at 07:16:44 Savage_Rob wrote:
Oh yeah! I think even a small fly screen and dropping the handles a bit would make a big difference. It's nice to hit that "bubble" when all the turbulence is gone and everything is quiet behind the screen. This happens on my Concours between 85 and 90 mph. It's a good speed to run down the road at. :P |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/16/07 at 07:43:03 verslagen1 wrote:
Believe me I know it is in fifth. Kinda hard to be that stupid with over forty years experience at bike and hot rod building. The Royal Enfield 500 single I have will cruise all day at 70-75 and isn't working half as hard(RPM) as the Savage. It just takes a lot longer to get there cause it is only 22 hp and is geared different. I think it was Smokin_blue that said they changed gear ratios when they went to five speeds. I am just wondering if they did it again when they started calling them S-40 Boulevard's, cause that is all mine is good for,riding on the back roads and city streets, forget riding any distance at 75-80on the interstate. the only way it would hit 100 is the plane drop method. When I'm on the interstate(once) the semi's were passing me, and I thought I was going to cause an accident from obstructing the flow of traffic. I have a 67 Royal Enfield 750 Interceptor 4 speed and broke the speedo cable at 120mph. I also have a 100hp plus custom, 6 speed bike and it will do 130+. I wish I could take the sixth gear out of it(who needs it when you can do 100+ in fifth) and put it in the S-40. Every time I ride it I find myself trying to shift into a non-exsisting 6th cause mine needs it. That's how high it revs at 70. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by verslagen1 on 02/16/07 at 09:04:26 I didn't mean to infer that you're a newbie just cause I am. I've shifted into 5th a few times and found myself still in 4th or in neutral so I know the tranny is not bulit proof. But unless they screwed up the tranny at the factory, you should be able to do a ton. And If it were bought new, I'd be at the stealer with my biggest pair of boots on. Is there a way to measure the gear ratios? Maybe you could measure the distance covered per engine revolution. I'd gladly do the same to give you a comparison. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Dynobob on 02/16/07 at 09:21:33 hutch wrote:
It sounds like you're lacking on the top end. Mine happily pulls very hard to 80 and has plenty more left. You're only running a 152 main jet which may be the reason yours isn't better on the interstate. If you went up a size or two on the main jet, you'd probably find that lost top end power. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/16/07 at 09:49:20 That is what I was thinking also. I mean this thing has all kinds of acceleration, but no top end. I can't believe it comes from the factory with a 145 jet. The 152.5 made a lot of difference and the 55 pilot took care of the backfire, I didn't even have to change the white spacer cause it is not lacking in mid range or acceleration. It doesn't seem to surge or pop at top end (being what it is) like it is starving for fuel, but that is about all I can think of too. The only other thing is the gear ratios. It was Rockin_Jonh that posted the gear ratio's for the later models and they are lower in the new models. Fifth is lower than the old 4 speed top gear. That accounts for less top speed, but more acceleration than the 4 gear. My bike has only 2,000 miles on it and maybe it is still tight, but it doesn't act like it. It just seems funny that only the 05- 07 models are the ones with no top end. Something changed somewhere. I'd like to do a poll of the S-40 models vs the Savage, with only carb and pipe mods done on each type. That would let John1652, myself and others know what the deal is.Just from what I have seen here it seems the 96-04 models are faster than the 05-07. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/16/07 at 10:36:31 hutch wrote:
Yeah, it is lean, and I'm even wondering if the Savage/S40 will survive the next round of EPA (i e. California) Standards when they go into effect. The Savage is one of the last of the carb types and it is air cooled too. Suzuki might eventually eliminate the S40 just because they can't improve it any further without fuel injection or liquid cooling...or maybe in 10 years we'll be discussing reprogramming the PCM with a new fuel profile instead :) |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/16/07 at 10:59:22 verslagen1 wrote:
Thanks for the offer, didn't mean to sound like an a$$, but I rode bikes for three years before I bought a car. My dad bribed me with a car just to get me off of them. Didn't work. As soon as car was paid for ,I bought another bike and haven't quit for 40+ years.I got seven at last count ranging from 230cc-1659cc. Bought the S-40 new and dealer said 80mph was pushing it, for a 650. I asked him why my 500 single does 70+ and he didn't have an answer. My 69 triumph does 95, my 67 750 Royal Enfield does 120. The S-40 just runs out of RPM's at 80mph. It's wound!!!! Back to your offer, it will be a while before I will be riding here in this LOVERLY state of Michigan and I will have to get a tach before we can conpare. Thanks again and I will get in touch when(and if) it ever warms up here. Probably about 2-3 months. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Dynobob on 02/16/07 at 11:15:45 I doubt they changed the porting on the late models but I suppose they could have altered the cam timing for emissions. Compare your bike's performance to similarly modded bikes. Changing the main jet is pretty easy and inexpensive. I'd go up 2 sizes (157.5) and give it a test ride. You might be surprised. It's easy enough to go down to a 155 or return to your 152.5. Mine is turning some rpms at those speeds, no doubt. But is does have some power. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Phelonius on 02/16/07 at 11:17:40 All of us who have earned the title Geezer, know the truth of the statement, "The older I get, the faster I was." Phelonius |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/16/07 at 11:38:15 Just what is the factory rated hp and redline for a 06 S-40. Every where I look on line it doesn't have it for anything newer than a 04, and all are different. They didn't bother putting it in the manual. I know most sites give 28-32 for hp, but not much on rpm. To me with all the years of working with bikes and hot rods it sounds about like 5500-6000 rpms when Im' maxed outat 80mph. If I am at top rpm ,then it is not the carb and lack of fuel, it's the gear ratios., and they change something somewhere. Maybe it is cam timing or something else. I know the way this thing accelerates it is great for 1/4 mile and not much else. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by vroom1776 on 02/16/07 at 11:48:10 one way to figue out if the gearing is different is simply to look up part numbers. if the part numbers are different, the parts are different. that won't tell us what the gearing actually is, though. also, it might be a different portion of the part in question that is different. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/16/07 at 11:48:58 hutch wrote:
What are the differences between '04, '05, and '06? |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/16/07 at 11:58:59 Greg_650 wrote:
Not really sure when they started calling them S-40, and that's when they lost top end or not. Sorry, what I meant buy all being different was that one site says, the hp for say a 96 is one thing and another says something else. I can't even find a site with hp and rpm stats for an 04-07 S-40.Sure wish it was warmer weather and somebody with a 80+mph Savage lived near me so you could ride mine and see what I mean. My son races dirt bikes and loves it. He calls it a street dirt bike!!!!, but said it would blow up in no time if you drive 75 for very long. SEE WHAT I MEAN!!!! |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/16/07 at 12:15:08 hutch wrote:
Honestly, I don't think there have been any internal engine changes. I've been reading this same subject since about 2001 (when I first started online). Everyone has wondered about the HP and a few have done dyno runs. Everyone has tried top end speeds and 1 or 2 have made it over 100 with some mods. I think that HP is possibly mentioned in the MOM, but I'm not sure where mine is. 30-31 HP at 6,000? I don't know. I do know that mine turns an even 3500 at 50 mph in 5th, so by doing the math that really tops the bike at 85. With the exception of going from 4 speed to 5 speed and some jetting changes (excluding California models) there has been almost none...except for changing the name, too. There are a couple topics in the tech section about changes and the carb specs, but I don't know how well they've been updated. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/16/07 at 12:20:11 Oh yeah, a quick check with Ron Ayers shows that parts for the Savage stopped at 2004 and the S40 started at 2005. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/16/07 at 12:42:13 Greg_650 wrote:
Well that clears that up. 05 was when they went to S-40. Can't find rpm, or hp specs for the S-40, or what year it became a 5 speed on the net. Rockin_John posted the difference in gear ratios a long time ago and it is 0.875 for the 4 speed, and 0.884 for the 5 speed. That is why the 4 speed has less acceleration but more top end than the five gear. If they changed gearing for the S-40 I don't know, but it sure seems funny that they all seem to have acceleration from he!!, and no top end. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/16/07 at 12:57:50 Phelonius wrote:
I know you were just making a truthful statement, but the 120 and 130mph speeds I was talking about were done by me last summer and i'm almost 56(2 months). My kids think I'm nuts(probably worried). But like I told them, "I would rather die doing something I love than in an old folks home". Has something to do with BLAZE OF GLORY , I guess??? |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Savage_Rob on 02/16/07 at 13:37:24 I'm pretty sure there were no gearing changes to the LS650 when Suzuki rebranded their cruiser line. Since the shift from 4-speed to 5-speed, there have been minor improvements and cosmetic changes but nothing very big. In my opinion, the best non-cosmetic changes are the modified starter that suffers less from backlash and the redesigned starter switch that kills the headlight during starting. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/16/07 at 13:51:48 hutch wrote:
That's true, but I do believe they changed the primary ratio when they added the higher cog. I have those specs in the garage. So with the primary change, they all changed. The rest is gear ratios and power output. I'm not sure if the Savage40 has a rev limiter or not. Never wanted to find out...or throw a piston :) |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/16/07 at 15:25:48 Here's the Tech section topic about changes to the Savage40. It has the ratios and other stuff. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1098969517 |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/16/07 at 16:57:09 Greg_650 wrote:
I don't think the S-40 has a rev limiter. If it did it would have kicked in way before the rpm's I have hit with it trying to get over 80mph. I am a small block high rev nut. When everybody started going to big block race cars I stuck with small blocks. I never did like the long stroke of the Harley motor. One of many reasons I quit buying Harleys. They took forever to get rolling unless you spent a fortune to soup them up. I don't like the idea of throwing a piston either, but that's what it sounds like I'm going to do everytime I try to get to 80mph. And like I said I'm use to high rev motors, but I cringe at the rpm's at 80 on my bike. Can't wait for warm weather to rig up a tach and find out what the r's really are when she is MAXED at 80. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/16/07 at 19:05:22 Well I just found a table in my owners manual that gives the following HIGHEST recomended speeds after the bike has 1000 miles on it. 1stgear,35mph@6500rpm, 2nd gear,55mph@6500rpm, 3rd gear 75mph@6500rpm, 4th gear 90mph@6500rpm, 5th gear100mph@6500rpm. Well I wasn't far off on my estimate of rpms I hear. But 90mph in 4th?? I can't get over 80mph in 5th.Doesn't sound like John 1652 can either. As far as that goes, it sounds like most of us are running a little shy of the top speed they say the bike is capable of in the owners manual. It's the 05 manual That came with my 06 S-40. Page 4-2. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by verslagen1 on 02/16/07 at 19:10:07 Hutch, What I am thinking is to measure the distance the bike rolls for 1 revolution of the engine in each gear. take out the sparkplug and the TDC cover. Back the bike up to a wall. Set the engine at TDC. Put it in 1st gear. Measure from the wall to something on the bike. and roll the bike for 1 rev of the engine. Measure again, subtract the first measurement. Now you have the final drive distance for first. Repeat for all the gears. If you measure the circumference of the rear tire, this divided by the final drive distance should give the gear ratio's. You should be able to do this in a garage. This might not be incredibly accurate, but should tell you if something is incredibly wrong. I'll give it a try when I can. In the 2002 owners manual page 24, max engine speed is 6500 rpm and top speed is 100mph. If the stealer says that 70 for this bike is pushing it... he obviously hasn't read the manual. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/16/07 at 19:35:24 The dealer said 80 was pushing it. As far as the comparing goes, don't be in a hurry. I live in Michigan and would have to dig a path through a foot of snow for 150 feet to get my bike out of the living room and in the garage. Even if I did there is no heat and the average temp has been 0-10 for 7 weeks here. It is looking up though. The weatherman say we MIGHT hit 33 NEXT Wednesday. Your lucky if you ride for 5-6 months in this state. I have lived here my whole life and still hate winter. Seven bikes and 5-6 months to ride. Sure keeps the miles low on them. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Brewbrother on 02/16/07 at 21:21:56 hutch wrote:
Ive been riding for 30 years, mainly on a CB. I did a bone stock early morning highway run with a 2001. I topped it out at 96 going slightly down hill after winding the bike out over 30-35 miles one way while hugging the tank. Another gear would have been another story. Perhaps over 100 albeit the suspension and stock rubber may have objected. good luck with your search for top end. Its been an inspiring read. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/17/07 at 08:07:57 Doing the math again based on my tach: 6500 rpms = 92.8 mph (and the speedo probably reads on the high side) 1986-1988 - 4 speed ratios: 1st- 2.214 2nd-1.500 3rd- 1.095 4th- .875 1995-2005 - 5 speed ratios; 1st- 2.333 2nd-1.578 3rd-1.142 4th-.956 5th-.884 Primary reduction ratio: '86 -'88 - 1.88 with the gears 68 and 36. After that - 1.81 with the gears 67 and 37. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by LANCER on 02/17/07 at 08:54:26 Quote:
You got it, at least for stock rubber it is witin +/- a couple of numbers. My last test runs with the Veypor doing the data work for rpm, mph, etc, and a new 140/90-15 tire show slightly higher speeds for the given rpm. I was showing right at 3050 +/- 10 rpm at 50 mph on the Veypor. It uses engine rpm, time, distance (measured to o.1") to calculate actual speed and rpm. That will yield 106.5 mph at 6500 rpm. 50 @ 3050 rpm 60 @ 3660 rpm 70 @ 4270 rpm 80 @ 4880 rpm 90 @ 5490 rpm 100 @ 6100 rpm 105 @ 6405 rpm |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/17/07 at 09:47:16 Greg and LANCER, first off thank you for all the figures. I am either being paranoid about the r's in the first 4 gears going buy sound only(no tach), or something. But in top gear with the throttle as far as it will go, I have 80mph and no more left. It just sets at 80mph. I have even checked to see if the brakes were dragging.That's why the 90mph in 4th just about floored me when I read it!!! Like I said it's a rocket, for a 1/4 mile. A reasonable "sounding" rpm for me in 5th is 65mph. At that speed you get run over in the slow lane by semi's in Michigan. If even bigger jets(155,157.5) or changing the timeing doesn't work, I'm back to chain and playing with sprockets. Can't think of anything else to do. I did notice one thing from LANCERS figures. First they fall right in line with what the factory says. When verslagen1 said at 77mph he was doing 5000rpm it was darn close to the LANCER figures. Greg seems to be about 400rpm's too high. for his speed.(speedo/tach error maybe) at 50mph. I don't care about having a 100 top end, but if that is the only way I can run 75-80 at the same rpm I have now at 65mph, that is what I have to do. In most of my drag cars I had a quick change rear end so I could drag at the strip or change it out for the street. One more reason I like chain and sprockets, I can do the same thing. Something is definately going on with the s-40's though, and it doesn't smell good. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by mornhm on 02/17/07 at 12:35:00 hutch wrote:
Two alternatives come to mind, 1. stay off multilane roads, 2. get a different MC, both work different people choose different routes. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/17/07 at 14:09:09 hutch wrote:
I hate to think that my tach is off that much, but I noticed the difference too. I'll be checking more closely next time... |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by LANCER on 02/17/07 at 14:28:35 A Savage in proper mechanical condition, in stock form will usually not go much more than 80-83 mph. That is what mine did when I first got it. At anything above 75 it sounded like it was straining for every ounce of breath and each additional mph. It was weak to be sure. With just a muffler swap and a proper jetting change with good tuning, it will run much much better. When I did mine, and this was done in a few stages as I was testing each change along the way, the performance from idle to top end improved noticeably. Top speed jumped to 90+ and low/midrange power was significantly improved. Besides, the sound of the trumpet muffler was a welcome change from the putputput stock sound. It was a cheap version so the glass packing burned out quickly and the sound got too loud and harsh. So I began the search for the perfect muffler. As posted earlier, stock gearing with stock rubber the bike was geared for 100 mph @ 6500 rpm. It would in no way have the power to pull 100 without quality modifications to the intake, carb and exhaust. Before I started my rebuild I could expect to get up to 95-98 on most any day, but to bust 100 it needed to be a nice day in the 60-70's and low humidity. That is what it seemed to like. Throw in a little carb tweaking for that particular day to get things nice and crisp and then it would want to RUN WITH THE DOGS! My best run was at 105, but only did it once. It has hit the 100-102 range a couple of other times. Changing the gearing will get you a lower rpm at highway cruising speeds but will not increase top end unless you can get 50+ hp from it with some serious engine mod's. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/17/07 at 17:08:32 LANCER, I have done most everything that you said to my bike. I plan on getting larger yet jets to see if that helps. If not then it is chain and sprockets. That is where I have to disagree with your statement about horse power. As I said I have a 05 Royal Enfield 500cc Bullet. The only change I made was going from a 115main jet to a 120, Pulled off the stock Muffler, pulled the cat converter out of the head pipe and replaced it with a Thunder Monster power cone, slipped on a shortened upswept fish tail straight pipe with a 8" baffle I made out of two 4" baffles and tweeked the timing. This bike is rated at 22hp. Itwill cruise on the interstate at 75mph all day with out over revving. It is not fast acceleration wise, but it cruises at about 4500rpm at 75mph. Maxed at 5400rpm is close to 80mph. The RE weighs in at 370lbs, 20 lbs more than the Savage, and about 10hp less. I feel safer on the interstate with the RE than my S-40. At least it doesn't sound like it's gonna blow. I hope the jets work on the S-40, cause I do like the bike, just not happy anything over 65mph. The thing is even if I get it to do over 80, it still doesn't change the rpm problem, only a chain and sprockets will do that on mine. I will find out when I get a tach and see if it is running 6500rpm at 80mph in 5th. I knew I forgot something, My 500 RE has 12" apehangers and I set bolt upright at 70-75mph.Not to mention that other than a 5 speed instead of a four, the motor is the same internally as the 1955 model it is styled after. Not bad for 52 year old technology.The 06-07 has electronic ignition. My 05 still has points, and a kick or electric start. 70 mpg is also very cool. If I want to turn it into a 535cc with about 44hp I can buy the parts from the dealer for about $1500, and still get 55-60 mpg. I would like to get MY S-40 to run on the interstate like my 22hp RE. Also, any time you change the gear ratio in a car rearend or the gear ratio by sprockets /pulleys on a bike you WILL change the top speed unless we're talking a 5-10hp vehicle that can't handle it on the low end take off. That is why a taller tire gives you more top end. You basicaly changed the gear ratio. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/17/07 at 22:33:41 Need to put one of those old dual range sprocket setups on there. One for doing wheelies and the other for breaking the land speed record... |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by LANCER on 02/18/07 at 03:43:19 Hutch, I am quite familiar with the RE Bullet, I am a big singles from way back and having owned several, including a '78 Yamaha SR 500 and a '56 BSA Goldstar DBD 500 flat-track racer. The SR being very similar to the Savage in power and speed, and the Goldstar being in a totally different catagory ... it was a wild animal in comparison ... in the 50+ hp range. When the throttle was turned wide open it was hard to hang on during acceleration ... literally. It was a wild freaking ride. My point about the gear ratio change is simply that if a bike does not have enough power to max out its rpm in top gear now, then it will be even less able to come anywhere near maxing out its rpm with a taller gear ratio. It is not unusual for cruiser or standard type bikes with an "overdrive" type of top gear, to be able to achieve a higher top speed in 4th gear than in 5th gear. So adding more gear will not enable a higher top speed. The bottom line is that to get more speed you need more power. Your Savage, when running at 80 mph on the highway, is not turning 6500. Check my chart, at 80 a stock bike will be turning about 5000 rpm. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by barry68v10 on 02/18/07 at 03:58:15 A bike with a larger-than-stock rear tire may do 80 mph at 5000 rpms, but a five speed Savage with a 140-80-15 rear tire will do 75 mph at 5000 rpms. 6000 rpms at 90 mph. A 130-90-15, 140-90-15, or 150-90-15 would increase the speed per rpm. LANCER, I assume your bike does 80mph at 5000rpms so you must have a bigger rear tire? :-/ |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by LANCER on 02/18/07 at 04:07:38 Mine was doing 80 @ 4880 rpm with the 140/90-15 tire and stock gearing. It was one of the Kenda brand tires. There is enough variation in tire diameter/circumference between brands and sizes to make several mph difference on the road. When I had the stock tire on it my Savage did 80 @ 5200. 50 mph was @ 3250 rpm. Equating to 100 @ 6500 rpm. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/18/07 at 07:15:01 LANCER, all I know is that the RE is maxed at 80mph@5400rpm, the S40 is maxed at 80mph@ a whole lot more than 5400rpm....more like 6000+ So in your own words, since the S-40 has more horsepower than the RE, changing the gear ratio with chain and sprocket will increase top end and lower rpm at lower speeds. I would never try to change the RE ratio for the reason you said,not enough horsepower. It would put far to much strain on the bottom end of the motor when taking off. I sold a 69 Nova that I had set up for street class drag racing The idiot I sold it to(Ed) took it to the strip, showed up late ,didn't do a time trial with it and had only one person to race that day. The problem was ED had put 31" tall slicks on with the rearend set up for my wideovals. He wound it to 7500rpm dropped the clutch, pulled a big wheelie, almost killed the motor and still beat the only guy he had to race. I begged him to take the wide ovals off my street car for the next race. But all he said was "I'll make it run!!!. Well the next race was for the money and he did the same thing, only this time he spun three rod bearings, and lost. I could have killed him. When I tore the motor apart the bearings were piggie backed and the crank bent. So much for the 63 vette motor I had spent 2 years scraping the money together for to build. Buy putting those tall slicks on he had changed the gear ratio to about a 2.10, from the 3.90 that was in it. I know the RE would puke with a gear change. The S-40 is a different story. All I know is the S-40 is screaming rpms at 80 and done.Also, the S-40 does not have a overdrive type fifth gear. I wish it did, so I could do 80mph with out reving so High. I don't want to go 100 on it. I have enough other bikes that will FAR EXCEED the ton. I just want about 5000 at 80. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/18/07 at 07:34:51 hutch wrote:
Piggie Backed the bearings? Damm. Seems like it would busted the journals doing that... |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/18/07 at 08:01:06 Greg_650 wrote:
The ends of the bearings only overlapped about a 1/4" When he shut it down, it froze up and I knew something bad had happened. I sold him the car cause I was hurting for money with a wife and daughter. He took over payments. All I owed was $600. The motor was rebuildable, but he sold it and the car. Made me sick. I'll try to post a picture of the car. 1963, 327c.i. Vette motor that I built to 425hp ruined in two runs. Some people should be shot for being stupid. Hope this works. Here is photo of the 69 Nova. http://w2.bikepics.com/pics/2007/02/18/bikepics-805468-800.jpg |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by barry68v10 on 02/18/07 at 08:11:07 Why do we call 100 mph a "ton"? Shouldn't that refer to 200mph since a ton is 2000 lbs? ::) |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/18/07 at 08:37:49 barry68v10 wrote:
I guess you would have to ask a Limey, they are the ones that came up with it. Hey Mick, or Allan, got an answer?? |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/18/07 at 10:30:01 hutch wrote:
Ah. The good old days of muscle cars. Makes me want to go out and put a megaphone on a Corolla...not... |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/18/07 at 11:01:10 LOL, I know what you mean, I got a guy that goes by my house on the way to work and back home every day. His car sounds like the band member that missed the concert and is playing solo. I have had a lot of nice street rods may be I'll post more pics one day. My two loves Building race motors and drive trains, and the same with motorcycles. Can't do the cars anymore cause of the meds. Just hanging in there with the bikes. I don't have to crawl into or under the bikes. Love my air operated bike lift!!!! Set in a chair and go at it. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/18/07 at 11:45:35 hutch wrote:
I know what you mean about crawling under cars. The floor is either WAY down there, or getting up is WAY up there. I have a Malibu that has me under the gas tank at the moment. It used to be so easy to slide under there :P And an air operated bike lift? Show off ::) |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/18/07 at 12:21:45 Greg_650 wrote:
Yeah its great. I bought mine right after my last operation about 7years ago. They are a lot cheaper now(of course). But it sure is nice. It has removable side extensions and a drop out plate for changing tires, really SLICK!!! |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/18/07 at 12:52:22 hutch wrote:
Maybe you could put a pic in that other topic ??? Do a little bit o' showboating for us 8) |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/18/07 at 15:46:53 Greg, sorry don't have a camera right now but found some more hot rod pictures. This is my 62 Chevy that I put a Buick 455 Stage II motor in. Had to cut out frame mounts and use 6 cylinder mounts welded to cross frame. Bolted all mounts to motor, dropped in, leveled and got motor straight, then welded mounts to frame, pulled ot motor and finished welding 6cylinder mounts to frame, put motor back in and make a new drive shaft. That was when I was young and had the energy. That's my FIRST wife on the left. http://w2.bikepics.com/pics/2007/02/18/bikepics-806035-150.jpg Well that looks like crap, Guess I'll try another one off Bikepics |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/18/07 at 16:01:28 This is the car I originally had the 455 in before my wife spun it around and totaled it on a tree, trying to get home to clean house before I got there. Dirty house, wrecked car. I was overjoyed. http://w2.bikepics.com/pics/2007/02/18/bikepics-806053-800.jpg Must have been my wife screwing up the first picture, some things never change. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/18/07 at 18:03:11 This is like Dukes of Hazzard :) |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Reelthing on 02/18/07 at 18:20:34 hutch wrote:
edit the post and change the -150 to -800 |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/18/07 at 18:27:29 Greg_650 wrote:
Weez all just country boys, just farther north for me. Don't worry I got a lot more cars to show but I wouldn't want to bore you in one day. Thanks Reelthing, but I still thinkk she was messing with me YET!!! |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Reelthing on 02/18/07 at 18:30:47 likely - believe me I understand |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/18/07 at 18:49:38 I like the image of my EXs to be blurred :P |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by verslagen1 on 02/18/07 at 19:24:07 I'd like the image of my soon to be ex blurred in my mind. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by LANCER on 02/18/07 at 19:36:09 Quote:
Do you have a tach on the bike to confirm that, or are you judging it by the sound of the engine? |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by LANCER on 02/18/07 at 19:37:34 barry68v10 wrote:
I think that was a word/phrase that was coined by the Brit's way back when. 100 = 1 ton |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/18/07 at 20:35:26 LANCER wrote:
LANCER, I just found out they did change the trans gears on the S-40. Check the last post on the first page of the Chaindrive Conversion thread. No I don't have a tach, but now I know my ears aren't wrong. I will check with tach just to be sure the post isn't wrong, but it will be a couple of months before I can ride in Michigan. Lancer, check the CHAIN CONVERSION thread out. I also have all the specs for the change in rpm's and another for the speed change in each gear. See what you think!!! |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/19/07 at 10:38:05 verslagen1 wrote:
I heard that ::) |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by hutch on 02/19/07 at 12:54:03 DUKES OF HAZARD REDUX Greg this was my 1965 Ford Falcon Futura Sprint,289c.i.,3speed withHurst Ram 3 straight line shifter,1947 Studebaker straight axle, 2 buckets with the rear seat gutted and replaced with plywood and gold shag carpet,two 12" speakers mounted in where back of seat should have been,and some comfy throw pillows. My PLAY PEN. Sold due to DIVORCE. Greg, all my cars were built in the cattlebarn in true "good ole boy" fashion. Just finally got a garage 2 years ago. http://w2.bikepics.com/pics/2007/02/18/bikepics-806062-full.jpg |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/19/07 at 13:59:01 hutch wrote:
Ain't nothin' wrong with shade tree. I could tell you about a time the I flipped an old Datsun on it's drivers side just to get the engine out. The car was junk and I didn't have an engine hoist 8) Gold shag carpet, pillows and stereo. Back in the day when you could actually find a place to go "park". Back when the plywood wouldn't kill your knees too :P |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by john1652 on 02/22/07 at 06:00:32 i actually did the ton on a nice long stretch of straight road yesterday. it was beautiful here in western pa almost 55 degrees wall to wall sun. but it was not on the savage but rather the vl800 and only untill the arm touched 100 then quickly off the gas it was a strange sensation i don't care to experience again. and it was about all the volusia could do. have fun john |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/22/07 at 08:47:35 john1652 wrote:
What happened? Did you get front end wobble when you let off the gas? |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Odar on 02/22/07 at 09:03:03 Have not read all on this thread, but hear are my calculations on gear/ speed. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Odar1/Odars%20Savage/KmRPMcorr.jpg?t=1172163252 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Odar1/Odars%20Savage/KmRPMcorr.jpg?t=1172165152) This is Km/h but its easy to convert the km/h to miles/h Hope this help Odar Click on image for larger image display. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by john1652 on 02/22/07 at 11:48:08 Greg_650 wrote:
no it was more of a wobbling way down deep in my intestines and a feeling they may expel their contents. john |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Reelthing on 02/22/07 at 15:54:37 pass it more often than I should and sometimes before I know it on the other bike - but it's 200lbs heavier, geared tall,>2x the power, stablized fork and such |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Greg_650 on 02/23/07 at 05:39:10 john1652 wrote:
Oh....:P |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Phelonius on 03/19/07 at 13:32:13 As for all you speedsters out there who want to have a valid assesment of their bikes performance without the police certification that costs too much and makes your insurance premium rise, I have this advice. Tape your own (or borrowed) GPS to a sleeve and compare it's reading with your onboard speedometer at several different speeds. Write them down or memorize them and make magic marker dots on your speedo face. That's the speedo on the bike not the one you wear on your butt. The reason for taping it to your arm is to isolate it from any possible vibration influence from the road or bike. Your GPS reading can be trusted to be much more accurate than the on board meter as it is not affected by such things as friction, wear, centrifigal force changing the outer circumference of the tires at different speeds, etc. Not to mention that most factory stock speedo units are notorius for being in-accurate. Phelonius |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by LesGolden on 03/22/07 at 22:48:29 I have held, on the freeway during cool weather, speeds in excess of 95 mph on my '01 LS650. This was before switching to the 140/90 rear tire. I've tuned the carb to match a screamin' eagle and cone air filter and probably have the weight down to <=300lbs. I weight about 190. No fairing but tucked low as possible with full face helmet, 90-98 is maintainable for a minute or two, then back to a comfortable 80. A fork brace would greatly improve handling at top speed, as the flex of the whole bike becomes much more noticeable when pushed. In the humid 100 degree summer days, she tops out closer to 85. |
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Title: Re: did the ton Post by Savage_Rob on 03/23/07 at 05:47:46 The fork brace and windshield definitely make higher speeds more comfortable to me. |
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