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Message started by mavrik on 02/04/07 at 10:16:07

Title: Super or Regular
Post by mavrik on 02/04/07 at 10:16:07

Hello Savages: I'm sure this has been covered before but what's the word on gas??

Super is better for the Savage, or just regular unleaded?

Is there any difference or advantage/disadvantage to either?

Cheers

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Savage_Rob on 02/04/07 at 10:19:14

mavrik wrote:

It has... a lot Do a search.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Greg_650 on 02/04/07 at 10:50:33

Not Again! AAAHHHHHHH!!!!!

I think regular unleaded is best and Suzuki recommends it.

Now, everyone take cover :o

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by sluggo on 02/04/07 at 10:53:29

gas, i get it after i eat at taco bell,

paper or plastic

roll on or spray

tuna or well tuna

brownies frosted or not.

this list is endless, lets add this disscusion to the end of it. :o

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Greg_650 on 02/04/07 at 10:59:21

sluggo wrote:

gas, i get it after i eat at taco bell,

paper or plastic

roll on or spray

tuna or well tuna

brownies frosted or not.

this list is endless, lets add this disscusion to the end of it. :o

I get gas without Taco Bell

Plastic

Rub on

Beaver

Taint

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Brewbrother on 02/04/07 at 18:50:20

mavrik wrote:

Its a low compression engine. 87 octane is the consensus. Maybe lancer would benefit from higher octane with his internal mods to the engine. Those of us just using bolt on mods need nothing out of the ordinary. Let us never speak of this again.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Reelthing on 02/04/07 at 19:46:57

Brewbrother wrote:

87 octane is the consensus. .

Really?

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by georgekathe on 02/04/07 at 20:17:51

I'm not getting involved with the low/high debate here, other than to say I'm confused about one thing not really tied to Savages.

I read somewhere on site that maybe higher octane would be good in hotter climes in summer (where I am). however on one of those "how you can weather out the winter" features they do on local news when there isn't any real news they suggested using higher octane in the colder weather we get for the odd few days in the winter here.

so who is right on that one - do water cooled vehicles such as cars need higher octane in low temps & air cooled need higher octane in higher temps or what?

OK - I will say sometimes I put lower octane in Savage, sometimes higher - no real reason but for extra few cents I think what the hey (always higher in BMW - they say to do it - & always lower in little Suzuki Samurai "jeep" I drive)

sometimes I remember to put some fuel additive in (not expensive - it came in big bottle) both the Savage & Samurai (it is an '87).

Incidently - how many people ride a two wheeled & drive a four wheeled Suzuki, both names starting with S? ;)

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Brewbrother on 02/04/07 at 20:27:21

Reelthing wrote:

Really?

Low compression engine. Whats the point?? I live in a sub tropic area and I use 87 with no problems jut like in my silverado.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Savage_Rob on 02/05/07 at 05:07:28

The point is that higher temps reduce the compression required for preignition. Higher octane would raise the compression needed for possible preignition and more than counter the effect of the heat. Some of us who regularly get triple-digit temps and ride in city traffic feel it's a good way to hedge our bets.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by TVR on 02/05/07 at 05:58:08

So regular when its cool and ethyl when its hot? That the game plan?

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Reelthing on 02/05/07 at 06:29:44

that's generally what I do - or really watch what kind of fuel I use in the summer - shell93 and the rest of the time just whatever - and for the same reason I pour in synthc motorcycle oil 20w-50 summer and change it often - keep an eye on the oil temp gauge when idle'n around in hot traffic, much over 100C and I'll parkit for awhile, if it goes over 110c I'll change the oil soon.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Greg_650 on 02/05/07 at 14:02:58

How about just trying it? Put regular in it. If it doesn't ping or knock you're good. If it does, then use premium.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Reelthing on 02/05/07 at 15:44:50

I'm too scared of aluminum worms

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by georgekathe on 02/05/07 at 18:44:09

thanks for clarification, Savage Rob. now wonder what news folk were going on about higher octane in colder weather? ideas anyone (moot on the Savage as I've had enough experience on black ice back home to not risk it in cold weather we sometimes get here!)

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by thumperclone on 02/06/07 at 16:07:00

syn or dino oil ??

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Reelthing on 02/06/07 at 16:13:10

syn hands down - would you feed rotten dinos to anything you cared about?

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by thumperclone on 02/06/07 at 16:43:32

Reelthing wrote:

syn hands down - would you feed rotten dinos to anything you cared about?

just my furnace oh yeah gas is rotten dino!!!

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by EntropyofMe on 02/07/07 at 06:11:00

i might have a new direction for this thread... ethanol... i know it would require having a lot of stuff fabricated from stainless steel or teflon coated due to ethanol being water soluble, but it also has a very high octane. what other mods would you have to make to git 'er done with ethanol? hot spark? timing? what are the thoughts on this? i'm noticing ethanol starting to be sold pretty regularly around here and i'm hoping more places will go to this option.

thoughts?

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Savage_Rob on 02/07/07 at 08:24:32

EntropyofMe wrote:

It's not new. There are other threads where ethanol has been discussed fairly well. O-rings, tubing, seals, gaskets, etc. would all need to be certified to function with it. I've seen some of that stuff available for my Amal but the mileage is worse with ethanol too. I'm leaning more toward a diesel bike someday.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by EntropyofMe on 02/07/07 at 09:21:43

Savage_Rob wrote:

ah, my bad. i figured someone had to have mentioned it at some point or another. a diesel bike would be sweet! i think the military is using them already if i'm not mistaken. i saw some show about it a while back.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by YonuhAdisi on 02/07/07 at 09:29:38

The only problem I see with diesel is that in my neck of the woods the price is much higher than gas.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by EntropyofMe on 02/07/07 at 10:01:42

YonuhAdisi wrote:

The only problem I see with diesel is that in my neck of the woods the price is much higher than gas.

true, same here. but, it does open you up to more options (i.e. biodiesel, "grease bike").

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Savage_Rob on 02/07/07 at 13:43:19

EntropyofMe wrote:

Yeah, I keep watching http://www.dieselmotorcycles.com/ to see when their commercial model goes into production. It's a 650cc thumper (based on the KLX 650, I think) that gets 102 MPG. I just signed up for their newsletter.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by EntropyofMe on 02/07/07 at 13:59:15

Savage_Rob wrote:

man, those are nice! definitely the bikes that i saw on that show. i'm sure it was some discovery channel program or something.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by thumperclone on 02/07/07 at 14:07:57

Savage_Rob wrote:

was due for release this year last i checked..id do it if i had the green!!!

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by mavrik on 02/07/07 at 14:50:50

Hello Savages:
Diesel motorcycles.....I dunno bikes take such little gas and are so fuel efficient compared to cars.

Of course if we could harness the power of peoples Bitxhing we would have an unlimited fuel source. :P

We have an ethanol plant being constructed outside of town right now, it really helps the poor farmers because the principal ingredient is corn. We got lots of that. ;D

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by barry68v10 on 02/07/07 at 15:36:22

Ethanol is a superior motor fuel to gasoline and diesel IF the motor is setup for it and it's not mixed with gasoline. You could pump the compression ratio up to 13.5:1 and make some crazy power ;D Have been around experiments with propane and natural gas too. They are also superior to gasoline as a motorfuel source. Had a truck that ran on propane. Was sad to see it go, but the pastor of my church had need of a truck...

Anyway, high octane is great if you can use it, the problem is 8.5:1 compression can't use it. If anyone is concerned about overheating, richening the mixture is far better for protecting the engine than running high octane (old circle-track trick.)

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Mr 650 on 02/23/07 at 20:44:01

Fuel revisited..again.
Back when I bought the 650 I had been out of work and the 38 gallon tank on the Suburban was eating my lunch, literally. :'(
So back then I ran regular except when it got hot.
Then I got busy. The 650 got me bikin again and then work got good again.
AND, I have a new Amoco (white gas) station right down the street. So now both bikes are so economical I use the good stuff all the time, just in case. I mean how else you gonna spend a quarter these days? ???

As for cars they have knock sensors now, so they can tune down for detonation. I am not sure why cold weather would offer any other real use for premium, other than if new OBD2 cars w/ more compression would be able to crank in more advance in combination w/ cold air and more octane?

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Greg_650 on 02/24/07 at 06:31:24

When I bought my Savage, I initially thought, "Big Single needs Premium" like everyone else, and I ran premium for almost 2 years. I thought that it couldn't hurt anyway.

In the winter of '02, I tore down my engine to fix the plug leak, and while there I decided to paint the engine. That meant the head and cylinder were coming off....And I got to see the piston.

I had a crappy digital camera back then, but here is what I found. (BTW-I edited this shot for Be_Savage)
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/Piston-1.jpg

Yesterday, after 5 years and another 12K miles of using regular gas, I pulled the head again.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/HeadlessSavage_1699.jpg

Here you have it. 6 times the mileage as in the first picture.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/Piston_1693.jpg

Not being a chemist, I can't tell you the scientific stuff, but the general understanding is that premium burns slower than regular to prevent knock or ping. However, if the engine doesn't need premium it may not burn as cleanly either.

So, I will say it one more time. If you want to run premium even though you don't hear any knock or pinging, or because it simply makes you feel good. Go right ahead. It's your dollar.

PS - if you right click and "view image", you'll get a bigger picture.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by verslagen1 on 02/24/07 at 09:19:39

The additives in certain brands of gas used to leave deposits no matter what flavor you used.

Brand conscious owners would sometimes come in for a tune up and we'd find their sparkplugs coated with it. A light brown ceramic like coating.

I don't know if that's improved upon as of late but alaskan oil still has more sulfur in it.

And back when I was mopeding back and forth to school, I noticed it too. And I pulled the plug on a regular basis sand blasted it and put it back in. Then I started using an additive called "Gas Miser" and that stopped.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Greg_650 on 02/24/07 at 09:31:54

verslagen1 wrote:

Yep, but my only change in gas was related to the grade, not the brand. That picture is result of "all brands regular".

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by barry68v10 on 02/24/07 at 13:36:00

Bottom line here is this:

If anyone wants to ignore the facts AND the science here, go right ahead.

Otherwise, heed our advice. ;D

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Greg_650 on 02/24/07 at 16:00:29

barry68v10 wrote:

Bottom line here is this:

If anyone wants to ignore the facts AND the science here, go right ahead.

Otherwise, heed our advice. ;D

I don't know if I'd be quite that harsh, but you pretty much have it.

I've heard this same discussion so many times I feel like Bill Murray in Ground Hog Day.

Even though the MOM states "regular" people still think their bike, riding style, altitude, humidity, temperature, gravitational field or celestial alignment is unique.

And I've never heard anyone say theirs is actually knocking or pinging....in which case I'd say use "premium".

:P

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Fido_the_Cat on 02/24/07 at 21:53:42

Greg_650 wrote:

MOM states "regular"!

I don't think sound reasoning can argue with the points you made Greg. I have used the same oil and gas for many years simply because some national brands smell like kero. I get the mileage I expect and the meters seem to give me an accurate amount on a steady basis. Only recently did I find out that the Gas company also owns the oil company that I have used for years. I use them cause, again a proven track record. Castrol oil and Hess fuel. Regular works for me just fine. No ethanol, no funny smells.

[quote Mavrik author=link=board=RubberSideDown;num=1170612967;start=25#33 date=02/07/07 at 17:50:29]

We have an ethanol plant being constructed outside of town right now, it really helps the poor farmers because the principal ingredient is corn. We got lots of that.
[/quote]
A plant like that will need to suck up all the available corn in the area forcing the price to swell to a point that the farmers that need the corn for animals will not be able to afford it. They will have to use imported corn from Chile.
What a place we live in.... Room on other planets you say...?

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by barry68v10 on 02/25/07 at 04:39:44

Quote:

A plant like that will need to suck up all the available corn in the area forcing the price to swell to a point that the farmers that need the corn for animals will not be able to afford it. They will have to use imported corn from Chile.

I guess it's a little known fact that each bushell of corn produces 2.5 gallons of ethanol and over 50 lbs. of distillers dried grains. Farmers may finally be able to sell corn at "reasonable" prices and have enough money to actually make $ as opposed to just barely breaking even. Currently a process to use switchgrass instead of corn for ethanol production is in the works.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Greg_650 on 02/25/07 at 07:13:48

barry68v10 wrote:

Oh no! Some day the Arab Oil Cartel will Be replaced by the Corn Cartel. We'll have corn shortages and ethanol rationing due to some El Nino that ruined the annual crop :P

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Mr 650 on 02/27/07 at 23:35:57

Lots of deposits on the premium slug, Greg.
Additives may not help burn time, but what really turns slower than our 650?
Amoco used to claim refining the extra step.
40 years ago my buddy called it 'while gas' as it was clear.
I still use regular if it is cool out. and/or "on the road".
IF heading out and topping up put the Amoco in as it as convienient.

But forget my 650! What about me?
If corn goes up will I have to go back to regular (Falstaff) from premo (Mich Light)????? :'(

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Greg_650 on 02/28/07 at 10:52:58

Mr 650 wrote:

Man, I've never heard anyone call Mich Light, "Premo". I prefer the one and only Lite :P

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by PA KID on 02/28/07 at 16:15:32

I did the ole seat of the pants test.Super vs Regular gas
an throttle back,super won.Until i started changing things,Jardine exhaust main an pilot jet an a pod filter.
Stock the lil savage isn't savage,so the extra boost showed up. It's all just personal prefrence.It's your dollar.Next we'll be puttin hydrogen in our tires. ::)

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by barry68v10 on 02/28/07 at 16:16:52

Around my house, we call biodiesel by its more common name...vegetable oil ;D

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Greg_650 on 03/01/07 at 04:21:05

PA KID wrote:

I thought they put nitrogen in tires???

Wouldn't want exploding tires now.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Savage_Rob on 03/01/07 at 09:06:44

Greg_650 wrote:

I thought they put nitrogen in tires???

Wouldn't want exploding tires now.

Speaking of which... new thread.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Greg_650 on 03/01/07 at 09:22:14

Savage_Rob wrote:

Speaking of which... new thread.

Super or Regular Nitrogen for your tires. Has anyone ever tried that?

:P

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by barb36jack31 on 03/01/07 at 15:03:51

Had a speaker from the gasoline industry speak at my Rotary Club once and he told us that there are great differences in the gas delivered to different parts of the country.

Best gas to the Rockies and New England, poorest to flat old warm Florida where I live. The idea is to provide the bare minimum that the vehicles will run on (Read improve corporate profits). Back in the old days when I ran my Beemer from Florida to Maine in two .days, I would always experience 2-3 MPG increase when I hit VA and North The reverse was true on the return trip.

I agree with whoever said, "Try regular and if it doenn't ping - go with it!

Jack H.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Mr 650 on 03/11/07 at 23:51:33

Lite is lighter.
Last time I checked;
Budweiser=125 calories
Michlobe Light= 124 LOL!, but regular Mich=150

Greg_650 wrote:

Man, I've never heard anyone call Mich Light, "Premo". I prefer the one and only Lite :P

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Greg_650 on 03/12/07 at 04:42:37

Mr 650 wrote:

Lite is lighter.
Last time I checked;
Budweiser=125 calories
Michlobe Light= 124 LOL!, but regular Mich=150

I think that Lite is 96 calories. Plenty of room for a 12 pack and hard boiled egg on an Atkins diet.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Savage_Rob on 03/12/07 at 05:40:23

I believe beer is verboten on Atkins. I mean, it's liquid bread.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by LANCER on 03/12/07 at 06:27:42

Quote:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/Piston-1.jpg

Yesterday, after 5 years and another 12K miles of using regular gas, I pulled the head again.

Here you have it. 6 times the mileage as in the first picture.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/Piston_1693.jpg

Yep, that's mine. I have been running pemium almost exclusively and my piston looks a lot like the top pic.

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Greg_650 on 03/12/07 at 09:45:56

Savage_Rob wrote:

I believe beer is verboten on Atkins. I mean, it's liquid bread.

Beer has its own food group :)

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Mr 650 on 03/12/07 at 21:32:41

Yeah, we call it modified Adkins.

Greg_650 wrote:

Beer has its own food group :)

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Greg_650 on 03/13/07 at 08:15:37

Mr 650 wrote:

Yeah, we call it modified Adkins.

MMmmmm....Beeerr...

Doh!

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by mpescatori on 03/13/07 at 09:43:49

barb36jack31 wrote:

Same happens here in Europe too.
When traveling from Rome towards the Alps, I am accustomed to... 400 miles before I need to fill up.
When returning southbound, I easily get an extra 50 miles on the same gas tankful

Now, going back to regular vs. premium, what I can say is I've noticed that premium has more bang to it, so I generally fill up with premium for long trips, and leave regular to city traffic... after all, if you're stuck in 3rd gear in city traffic, what's the point?

Maurizio

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Greg_650 on 03/13/07 at 12:21:25

mpescatori wrote:

Are you going downhill from the Alps?

Title: Re: Super or Regular
Post by Savage_Rob on 03/13/07 at 15:04:03

At least here in the U.S., the difference between regular and premium is simply octane and only affects preignition at very high temps and/or high compression. The differences in formulations from one region to another I was aware of, but not that they had that much affect on mileage. Supposedly they are designed to meet regional pollution regulations and, to a lesser degree, function slightly better in different climates/altitudes. The mileage differences are interesting.