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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> More low/midrange power /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1170213644 Message started by barry68v10 on 01/30/07 at 19:20:44 |
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Title: More low/midrange power Post by barry68v10 on 01/30/07 at 19:20:44 Does anyone know/have experience with a 34mm or 36mm carb on the Savage? Theoretically, a 20-30% smaller carb should give big low and midrange gains...of course you'd give up some top end :-/ Thoughts? |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by azjay on 01/31/07 at 06:30:46 i've been considering it. i'd do just about ANYTHING,, to get away from that d@mned CV carb! |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by Savage_Rob on 01/31/07 at 06:38:32 Sorry, my Amal is 38mm. |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by LANCER on 01/31/07 at 14:14:53 barry68v10 wrote:
What do you want to know, specifically? |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by barry68v10 on 01/31/07 at 16:11:58 I'm willing to give up top end for low/midrange power and gas milage. I like simple. I have a slide carb on my dirt bike and it seems to have better low/midrange power than my Savage. I'm wondering if I could get similar low/midrange out of my Savage (and throttle response) by going with a smaller slide carb, not to mention a simpler setup. I know the formulas for cfm for cubic inches in car engines, but I'm too lazy right now to do the calculations to translate to milimeters and cc's and was wondering if anybody had empirical data on the subject. Also, I found a source for 36mm carbs for $150 bucks apiece and I think they'd fit without too much JERRYRIGGING ;D |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by LANCER on 01/31/07 at 18:05:12 I have put together carb kits for the Savage for 2 years. I have used Edelbrock Quicksilver flatslides (rebuilt used ones), new Amal Mark II's ... both 36 & 38mm, and currently use Mikuni 36mm VM roundslide carbs. They are the best for the money in a new carb, parts are plentiful and cheap, and they are easy to tune and make great power on a big single. The 36mm VM will flow more air/fuel than the stock Savage carb and will make more power from idle to full throttle and do it with much better responsiveness. When changing to a performance carb it is of course suggested to replace the stock exhaust system with a more free flowing system ... at least the muffler anyway ... but the header could use replacing as well. The minimum required to make a roundslide carb work on the Savage is the carb, mounting flange and custom made throttle cable. The carbs retail for $140, the flange for $22 and the cable at $38. Take a look at the pic below and you will see most of the parts I have included in the carb kits. I now also offer 2 additional items from Thunder Products, which are the UFO (Ultimate Flow Optimizer) and the DAJ (Dial-a-jet). Both of them will improve responsiveness and power even more, and also make jetting adjustments easier. They retail for $30 & $75 respectively. The kit as shown in the pic sold for $345 last year, and that did not include the UFO or DAJ. My throttle cables are custom made by Barnett, and there are 6 different models made to perfectly fit both old 80's models and the newer '95-present model Savages with any of the carbs used to this point. I spent several months working with the cable tech manager at Barnett in order to have a Savage specific product ... with Barnett part numbers ... in their system. I do not know of anyone else on this or any other continent that has put together as complete a carb kit as I have. The carb comes prejetted for the Savage engine in general, and includes additional main and pilot jets for the fine tuning of your carb to match your engines specific needs. Current carb kits may be as follows (I have not finalized the kit for the new year yet): Required -36mm VM prejetted carb with jet kit -mounting flange with stainless bolts -custom throttle cable Optional -carb tool -K&N or Emgo air filter -Iridium spark plug -Sudco/Mikuni tuning manual -Dial-a-jet (DAJ) -Ultimate Flow Optimizer (UFO) I have always given a 10% discount on all carb kit and some other parts to anyone who is a member of this website, when ordered through this website (ie, not through my ebay sales ads). http://images1.snapfish.com/34934%3C897%7Ffp335%3Enu%3D323%3A%3E639%3E697%3EWSNRCG%3D3233554%3A858%3A5nu0mrj If you have additional questions specific to your bike then just send me a IM. If it is something that is useful for everyone to hear then ask on this thread. |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by LANCER on 01/31/07 at 19:49:26 Dial-a-jet http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6aQQ%7C%3Dup6%3DzqH%3AxxqUD7qRUrKxzX7BHpUUKxgXPJP%3F87KR6xqpxQQQaxJQexJlGxv8uOc5xQQQ0oaQGllleJqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXPJP%7CRup6GQa%7C/of=50,590,374 ********************** UFO http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6aQQ%7C%3Dup6%3DzqH%3AxxqUD7qRUrKxzX7BHpUUKxgXP0n%3F87KR6xqpxQQQaxJQexJlGxv8uOc5xQQQ0oaQGllleQqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXP0n%7CRup6GnP%7C/of=50,590,435 *********************** TPI ... installed in the side of the air box, it allows more filtered air flow ($17-50 & $20-60 depending on size and number of valves) The Savage would use the basic models in most cases. http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6aQQ%7C%3Dup6%3DzqH%3AxxqUD7qRUrKxzX7BHpUUKxgXP0n%3F87KR6xqpxQQQaxJQexJlGxv8uOc5xQQQ0oaQGllleGqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXP0n%7CRup6JlJ%7C/of=50,590,342 |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by Greg_650 on 01/31/07 at 21:29:04 Darn. I don't know if I'm in eBay or the Marketplace, but I know that "I want one" :) Now translate... What is UFO? Unusually Foul Odor? What is TPI? The Part Indicated? |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by verslagen1 on 01/31/07 at 21:49:59 Lancer, you're going to have to post your site. I know you have one. Your badge used to give a hint where it is, but you don't have that anymore. And I'm wondering if you have a savage specific site? |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by LANCER on 02/01/07 at 01:47:17 I had an ebay store but had to shut it down a few months back because the costs where getting to high and because of all the family stuff that was going on. I could not keep it all going at the time. I do have a website but it is not yet set up the way I want. The info on it is incomplete and/or out of date. If you just want to take a quick look it is www.savageperformance.com Until I can get the site in proper order I will post on the market place or make an announcement. |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by barry68v10 on 02/01/07 at 03:13:26 I have a GSXR 600 muffler that I'm going to swap in. Don't know how that will work, and it may prove to have too much flow, but that's my next project. What kind of gas milage do you get with the 36mm round slide? This may be an irrelevant question since I know you've "significantly modified" your steed ;D |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by LANCER on 02/01/07 at 03:42:28 Quote:
I average 46-48 mpg. |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by azjay on 02/01/07 at 05:32:40 [quote author=LANCER link=board=RubberSideDown;num=1170213644;start=0#5 date=01/31/07 at 18:05:12]The minimum required to make a roundslide carb work on the Savage is the carb, mounting flange and custom made throttle cable. The carbs retail for $140, the flange for $22 and the cable at $38. will that carb or any of the others plug into the stock air box? i may have asked that question before,,,,,but i've slept since then :-/ thanks lancer for all your effort in this area. |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by LANCER on 02/01/07 at 06:21:46 There is a little difference in the OD of the stock carb and the 36mm VM but should be able to hook up to the air box. I have on occasion cut a strip of rubber from a tire tube and wrapped that around the outside of the carb and then slipped the filter (or tube from the air box) over that and then tightened the clamp. It is easy, cheap and works great, making a perfect seal. I have swapped out so many carbs of different types, sometimes 3 or 4 in a day, while trying to decide what worked best with which type of muffler, that using rubber tub material became a stock item for me. I keep it around for making gaskets or whatever, it can be very handy and will last a long time. |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by vroom1776 on 02/01/07 at 08:18:07 lancer, you gotta tell us what the TPI is and HOW it does it! okay, "tpi and knobby" on google gives: link (http://www.thunderproducts.com/tpi_valve.htm) |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by LANCER on 02/01/07 at 08:49:22 The following is from the www.thunderproducts.com. " The TPI Valve is designed to increase air flow into your air box and carburetors. Racers and tuners as well as many trail riders have known for many years that opening up the air box in order to flow more air makes more horse power. This is usually called “ventilating” or “gutting” the air box. They also know that more air means that the engine will be running leaner exactly the same as installing a smaller main jet. Only one thing was missing, and that was the ability to go back to the richer jetting required for colder weather or lower altitudes. What did they do about this? They tried to tape or stuff foam rubber in the openings they had created. All of this was very messy and imprecise. Much of the time they were either too rich or too lean or they had to start changing main jets in order to be jetted correctly. There must be a better way? There is!! It’s called a TPI valve. The TPI Valve can be opened completely to the leanest position or closed completely to the richest position or any position in between. The TPI Valve gives you a range of two to four jet sizes of adjustment providing you use the recommended number of valves in your air box. For more information on airbox modifications, read: Airbox, Friend or Foe? The TPI "Knobby" Valve is 1 1/2" diameter and 1 1/2" high. The TPI "Low-Boy" valve is a flush mounting version which is 2 5/8" square overall. TPI Valves come with filters. " http://www.thunderproducts.com/images/tpivalvepol.jpg http://www.thunderproducts.com/RX-1TPI1.JPG |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by Greg_650 on 02/01/07 at 09:33:04 Oh. Total Performance Intake and Ultimate Flow Optimizer. Now it makes sense :) |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by barry68v10 on 02/02/07 at 15:04:47 Ok, Lancer. Talking to you could be hazardous to my wallet! ::) Even though my current setup works flawlessly, and I'm a notorious cheap-skate, I'm seriously considering buying that carb kit!!! |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by LANCER on 02/02/07 at 16:18:11 The carb kit works well. As posted before, with the carb, a good exhaust, and the cam my engine is making 45 hp. No significant head work YET, and the compression ratio is still stock too. By spring time those things will be addressed though. Got to go and get ready to leave for Oklahoma in the morning, it is a 2 day drive to be there in time for his funeral services. |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by Greg_650 on 02/02/07 at 21:16:22 That's loyalty. Even with all his crap going on, he still had a parting statement. Drive safe. |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by Savage_Rob on 02/03/07 at 08:25:24 barry68v10 wrote:
To be honest, doing the same upgrades without talking to Lancer would likely be more hazardous to your wallet. |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by barry68v10 on 02/03/07 at 10:11:29 Quote:
Absolutely true! But then they'd be far less tempting ;D |
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Title: Re: More low/midrange power Post by Fido_the_Cat on 02/03/07 at 20:09:12 Savage_Rob wrote:
I second that! God speed man. |
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