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Message started by geo on 12/30/06 at 21:28:51

Title: Rear tire wear
Post by geo on 12/30/06 at 21:28:51

I'm getting noticable wear now on my new rear Metzeler tire at about 3000miles. It still has a lot of rubber left, but I will likely have to replace it in another 4000 miles.

I do accelerate this bike hard because it feels so good, and the engine loves it now, with the mods below.
The original rear tire lasted 3500 miles, but it had little rubber left. I had to get rid of it. The original rubber supplied with this bike was pretty bad.

How do the other brands of rear tires hold up?

I do not spin the tire. I'm just a little aggressive in 1st and 2nd gear acceleration, to 55mph. I do not lift the front wheel.

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by justin_o_guy on 12/30/06 at 21:36:31

I don't spin the tire either, cuz it would require a wet spot to get it started & would be too tuff on the clutch. For me, the biggest wear comes when I accidently lock the rear brake or downshift too far too quickly & drag the tire a bit. Not as often now that I have a tire that has traction. The original tire slipped all over the place & slid when downshifted much more than this $80.00 Promaxx.
I also don't wheelie, not enough power & too hard on the clutch. Maybe the power issue will be resolved at the end of the mods! Would your bike wheelie pretty easily?

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by Reelthing on 12/30/06 at 21:52:32

Geo, not going to question anothers style but I got 15k out of the rear me880 - and the front had to go as age cracks were showing up - must be the trapp?

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by geo on 12/30/06 at 22:26:49

Reelthing,
Yes, I believe the factory didn't expect me to put this much force to the street. The belt continues to look good, and the spokes are real short and look straight. I think the machine can take it.

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by Reelthing on 12/30/06 at 22:30:14

Oh I think they can too, but extended tire life might be an issue :)

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by geo on 12/30/06 at 23:18:08

Reelthing,
I'll never get 15K on this rear tire. I might get pretty good wear on the front tire like you have.

You must not be as agressive as me on starts.

After riding today, I felt the front tire and it was warm. I was surprised the front was picking up this much work. I tend to use the engine for stopping, then the rear brake. If I need more effort to get the bike stopped, I will grab the front brake. The front brake is used only when more agressive stopping is needed.

It would seem therefore, If I accelerate agressively then I might have to stop aggressively more often. So, my front tire might wear a little faster. I suspect my front will last a long time, while the rear will not.

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by justin_o_guy on 12/31/06 at 07:09:59

Front is easier to change & less expensive. I focus my braking on the front. It only gets a fraction of the work going down the road. My original lasted 12,000. That was the end of the second rear tire, 12,000. I want that rear to last as long as possible, WHILE I play as hard as I can, so I try to not use it for braking, except the downshift, which is way too much fun to Not do that.The first rear, OEM crud, stayed on 5,000 miles. My riding style is pretty agressive. I am not a skilled rider so if I rode more agressively I would be dangerous. I would ride harder if I was better at it. I figure 7,000 on a rear a bonus. Next rear is gonna be a more high $$ one. I want to see if the extra $$ is worth it.
I have about 1,500 on this tire & can just see it starting to get the flat spot. Gotta solve the rear brake lockup, It's eating rubber.

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by Reelthing on 12/31/06 at 08:05:49

You know the braking may be it. I'm only getting ~4k on a set of front pads until they're at or below the wear mark - with the ceramic a bit over 4k and the softer ebc's under - so during heavy commute on the '95 I'm changing oil every 6 weeks and front pads about every other oil change - not wearing them to the metal but if part of the grove is gone to the trash they go - spare set on the wall goes in.

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by mickthelimey on 12/31/06 at 09:07:33

I think you just explained your problem, most guys who have been riding for a few years use the FRONT break most of the time,just like a pro.
the rear brake is used when you want to stop fast,applied after the front brake,allways front first.
you can use the rear for sitting at traffic lights etc.
Front brakes are very easy to change as is the front tire.

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by justin_o_guy on 12/31/06 at 17:36:12

Under hard braking it is good to be able to get the front engaged & then add the rear, heck of it is, the rear brake locks up so easily it is more detriment than help. I am considering going in & decreasing the surface area in contact with the drum so it will take more pedal pressure to lock the rear wheel up. Sure enuff tho, I am on the front every stop & the rear just sometimes.

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by TheFid on 01/01/07 at 08:59:08

The rear brake (DRUM) has poor stopping capability now.If you remove part of the pads to decrease the surface area, you may as well not have a rear brake.As mentioned above, the rear brake should be used in conjunction with the front brake.Front brake first.

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by justin_o_guy on 01/01/07 at 09:28:52

The rear brake IS applied after the front. I ride like a maniac. I actually make the front chirp with the rubber brake hose.That requires a great deal more effort than I think is rerasonable. I want more stopping power. IF, & it is true, the rear brake is stout enuff to LOCK the rear wheel, making it less stout, so it doesnt LOCK the rear wheel so easily, is not at all equivalent to its removal, it is to make it more predictable & therefore more usable. Trust me, I need all the stopping power I can get. A locked & sliding rear wheel is not to my best advantage. The rear wheel locks without hardly any effort. the difference in the pressure to have optimal braking & locked up is mere ounces. With less surface area I think I can make the difference between good solid braking forces & locked up & sliding someth9ng I can feel & apply thru my boots.

I will let y'all know how it goes. Win or lose. Instead of telling me what a dofus I am maybe you could say Good Luck & hope I will be able to offer the rest of the forum a simple, FREE mod that makes the bike safer & more fun.

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by verslagen1 on 01/01/07 at 10:40:25

Hey Justin don't take offense.
I'm a noob too. I'm reading this trying to gather in others experience to bolster my own. Take a step back and re-read this tread, what are you missing?
All of these guys are saying you aren't going to gain anything by cutting down the brake pads. Of course I'm assuming some of them having lot's of experience, I know Mick does. And you're saying that you have trouble keeping the rear from locking, and I know you're a noob.
Of course I hear you, you're fustrated. Darn thing keeps locking on you. Takes practice. Give it some time. If everyone was saying crappy brakes and this mod makes it better, let's go for it. Until then... practice.

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by Reelthing on 01/01/07 at 11:18:49

Go for it, sure wouldn't cost much to find out. Guess you might want to watch how you thin them down sure don't want them to crumble - the EBCs on the rear seem to have a good bit more friction to them over the oem - but the oems at least on the '95 had what I think were aluminum frames instead of steel may have stayed cooler - yours oem or aftermarket?

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by justin_o_guy on 01/01/07 at 12:33:37

Well,, I intend to do it, & please don't take offense, but that no one else has done it is ,to me, no reason for me not to.Someone had to do everything that is accepted today once when no one had even thought of it.
Fid notes that the rear brake functions with such vigor as to lock the rear wheel & then states that any modification to lessen its effectiveness would be equivalent to just throwing it out. That is as illogical a statement as ever I heard. Like saying an anchor is so heavy as to sink the boat but cutting off a portion so as to make it usable would mean you should just not have an anchor at all. Thinking like that is illogical, frustrating, condescending & has no place in adult society.
So, if the steak on my plate is too big to stuff in my mouth, If I cut off a bite, I am performing the same act as throwing it away.. I have zero respect for that kind of thinking & am not willing to engage in a discussion with people who use it.

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by justin_o_guy on 01/01/07 at 12:38:47

Mine are OEM & I am considering making lines across the face so the width of the contact patch is not affected. Just a few grooves, the area of which I expect to be about 30% of total. Grooves not so deep as to destroy the integrity of the brakeing material. Maybe a chevron shape or angled grooves to channel the dust from between the brake shoe & the drum. If that translates in a 30% greater required pressure to lock the brake it just might become manageable about there.

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by Reelthing on 01/01/07 at 14:42:33

might be easier to angle down a little at a time on the leading edge(s) until to get the feel you're after - in fact used to be a pretty common thing to do on new ones to help get rid of the squeeeeal - so on these S40's are the oems shoes aluminum framed? you know a set of new EBC's would make a good target for the mod

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by Rockin_John on 01/01/07 at 14:46:27

For one, I'd be curious to hear how Justin's experiment with the rear brake pads goes. As I have also experienced more than expected rear brake lock-up under semi hard braking conditions in the few hundred miles since getting my Savage. I'm no rookie to drum or disk brakes, and agree that the Savages rear goes from medium drag to sliding with almost no difference in pedal pressure. But I think I may be able to explain why it happens, at least in my riding style… Which, BTW, includes heavy and predominant use of the front brake.

In my estimation, the biggest factor is the strong compression braking from the big single, and the fact that the compression braking comes in “surges” from the slow turning and long stroke engine. Most multi-cylinder or even single cylinder two-stroke engines have a much smoother engine braking action than a big 4-cycle single. Evidence of this comes from the numerous times I’ve locked the rear up and slid anywhere from a few feet up to 20-30 feet. And I've come to notice that it most usually happens when the engine braking is strong, and often when the RPMs are dropping down to where you can almost feel each pulse of braking from the engine. Which brings up another subject: Once you have locked a rear tire up ONCE to the point of sliding it pretty hard, you have developed a slight ‘flat spot’ on the tire; which will be the place in rotation where the tire will have a tendency to lock and slide during future hard stops. Don’t think that the “flat spot” syndrome only applies to soft compound racing tires, as I have experienced it with street tires with both cars and cycles.

I haven't noticed that the rear locking condition is a function of continuous hard braking and heating, in fact, just the opposite. As the rear brake gets heated to the point of beginning to fade, the decreased sensitivity actually makes the rear less likely to lock up. Hence my guess that Justin’s seemingly unconventional approach may actually reap good results up to the point that the brakes heat and start to fade, then you may wish you had that extra bit of brake power back.

All in all, I think that Justin’s idea may be a good answer for some riders. However, for myself, I’ve already found what I think is causing me to lock the rear up occasionally, and my solution will probably just be awareness of the idiosyncrasy, and a slight compensation in riding style to accommodate for it. YMMV

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by justin_o_guy on 01/01/07 at 14:59:51

With that in m ind I will try to haul the clutch in next time I am treying to stop in fewer feet than the laws of physics would agree I should be able to! Thats a valuable observation & good point.

Reel, I will look at them & see what the base is, But will most likely just go with OEM since I wont have to spend any more than I already have. Thanks for the leading edge info.

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by geo on 01/01/07 at 21:43:50

I don't have to use brakes that agressively with this bike under normal use. The reason being the tremendous compression breaking I get with this engine. You could probably survive OK with only the rear brake if there were no 4-wheelers out there.

Beware of the 4-wheeled sheet metal covered things out there.

Be especially aware of the sport utility tanks (SUT). They care about nothing, and will gladly bury your ass into the pavement while they are talking on their cell phones.

Title: Re: Rear tire wear
Post by Rockin_John on 01/01/07 at 23:06:46

geo wrote:

I don't have to use brakes that agressively with this bike under normal use. The reason being the tremendous compression breaking I get with this engine.

Despite my awareness of combined engine and drum braking causing the rear tire to break traction unexpectedly on the Savage; I use down shifting and engine braking a great deal too. Consider it a fringe benefit of a thumper; which pays off in reduced replacement of brake parts. And if done correctly it doesn't cause a great deal of strain on the drive system or engine IMO.