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Message started by rkrush on 11/25/06 at 23:51:37

Title: Knocking in the engine?
Post by rkrush on 11/25/06 at 23:51:37

Hi,

I'm a new member here, as well as a new motorcyclist with '03 Savage being my first bike. I've been riding for a few months now and am doing all right for the most part. There is one thing that I cannot seem to get right, unless it is my bike that is causing problems.

In short, whenever I upshift at the speeds recommended in the manual (2nd gear at 12 mph, 3rd at 19 mph, 4th at 25 mph, and 5th at 31 mph), there is "knocking" in the engine as if the bike is in too high of a gear. It passes shortly as I accelerate, but it still seems like something that shouldn't be happening. It's not as extreme as if I skipped a gear and it doesn't jerk the bike nearly as much, but it's still noticeable.

Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

Thank you,
Richard

Title: Re: Knocking in the engine?
Post by PerrydaSavage on 11/26/06 at 03:10:40

In short, you seem to be shifting up to the next highest gear too soon, causing the engine to lug ... prolonged lugging of the engine isn't a good thing to be at! :o

I also Ride an '03 LS650 and find the recommended up shift points in the Owners Manual to be too low ... do not be afraid to let the Bike speed up some more before shifting into the next highest gear ... try it and let us know how it goes! ;D ... if my Bike weren't winterized, I'd take her for a spin and letcha know generally what my shift points are for everyday Riding ... I can't remember 'em off the top of my head, 'cause I mostly go by "feel" anyhow ...

Title: Re: Knocking in the engine?
Post by Trippah on 11/26/06 at 06:44:36

Unless you are racing, no need to rush the up shift. I think Perrydasavage has it right, you are shifting before you need to. The other possiblility is you are releasing the clutch too quickly, although that usually results in a jerking sensation (refering to the bike NOT he rider.) ;D ;D
You really don't need to shift up until you start runing out of steam.. have fun.

Title: Re: Knocking in the engine?
Post by Ed_L. on 11/26/06 at 06:54:54

Sounds like you are shifting way too soon and lugging the engine. Running first gear out to 12mph is fine but all the other shift points are way too low. Try third at 30mph, forth at 45mph and fifth at 55 or 60mph.

Title: Re: Knocking in the engine?
Post by Savage_Rob on 11/26/06 at 08:17:05

Yeah, those speeds look too low to me also. I know that the comfortable low end of 3rd for me is about 30 MPH and I usually shift into 4th at 40+ MPH and 5th at 55-60 MPH. I will downshift to 4th at about 50 MPH when slowing in traffic though.

Title: Re: Knocking in the engine?
Post by smokey02 on 11/26/06 at 10:10:59

Hi Richard,

They do sound a bit soon for upshift
I use these shift points (4000rpm):
20 shift to 2nd
30 shift to 3rd
45 shift to 4th
55 shift to 5th

Thats for just cruising in traffic, if I want
to get up to speed a bit quicker, I'll let it
run a bit higher in each gear before I shift.
Also, I don't downshift that much when slowing down,
there is plenty of compression drag in 4th to slow me down,
then I shift all the way down to 1st in the last 50 feet.
That way, I get to use a little brake and show some
brake light to the auto behind me. (they get right on my
tail if I slow down too fast)

My 1996 LS650 owners manual has this BREAK-IN chart:
Initial Up to Over
500miles 1000miles 1000miles
(800km) (1600km) (1600km)
Max
engine 4000 5000 6500
speed r/min r/min r/min

1st miles/h 20 25 35
km/h 35 45 60

2nd miles/h 30 40 55
km/h 50 65 85

3rd miles/h 45 55 75
km/h 75 90 120

4th miles/h 55 70 90
km/h 90 110 140

Top miles/h 60 75 100
km/h 95 120 155

The manual's 6500 rpm numbers seem a bit high to me,
but I've never been above 75mph.

Smokey

Title: Re: Knocking in the engine?
Post by Steve530 on 11/26/06 at 10:36:17

I wonder why the manual has such low shift points. Like 5th gear at 30 mph until top speed? It mus be that they want you to shift so that the bike will be at idle speed when the shift is complete.

My wife has a Ninja 250 and the manual for it also has unrealistically low shift points. An it's supposed to rev to 14000 rpm. ???

Title: Re: Knocking in the engine?
Post by hunnus2000 on 11/26/06 at 10:50:14

I agree with everyone here about shifting up too soon. My wife's 2006 Savage wants to to wound out a little longer.
In "general" 1-20 -1st gear
20-30 - 2nd gear
30-40 - 4th gear
Anything higher it's fith gear and hold on! ;D

Title: Re: Knocking in the engine?
Post by SavageDude on 11/26/06 at 11:00:58

Who looks at speed when shifting? :o Have to watch your surrounding all the time, right? Anyway, you just have to listen and FEEL your bike to find that happy point to shift to the next gear. My belief is that if you shift at a higher RPM, you will wear out your engine sooner; and if you're shift at low RPM, you lugging your engine. Neither ends is good. Personally, I shift after I rolled the throttle half way. LISTEN and FEEL is the key points, your bike and you should become one(Now that sounds corny ;D)

Ride safe Dude

Title: Re: Knocking in the engine?
Post by thumperclone on 11/26/06 at 13:09:52

is the idle set @ 1100 rpm ? what mods does the engine have?
in time you'll learn the sound of your ride...

Title: Re: Knocking in the engine?
Post by verslagen1 on 11/26/06 at 19:35:25

I'm new to 2 wheelin' as well, I needed a tach to learn what was what. At 1800 rpm's, the engine is easy to lug. But at 2k it's hard to make it lug.

Title: Re: Knocking in the engine?
Post by rkrush on 11/26/06 at 22:23:28

Thank you for all your replies, I will start shifting a bit later and will go more by the feel and sound rather than the speedometer.

thumperclone wrote:

Quote:

is the idle set @ 1100 rpm ? what mods does the engine have?

To be honest, I have no idea what the idle is set to or how to check, since the bike doesn't have a tachometer. The engine has no mods that I know of (it was bought used). Is there a way to check/set the idle speed without expensive equipment?