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Message started by Steve530 on 11/12/06 at 17:56:32

Title: Question about sealing the exhaust with Permatex
Post by Steve530 on 11/12/06 at 17:56:32

I have a Dyna muffler installed with a short adapter pipe from a local muffler shop.

I first tried sealing it with "muffler paste" I found in a auto parts store. It didn't seem to seal very well and got so hard that it started breaking off.

After reading here that several people sealed the muffle to exhaust joint with Permatex, I thought I'd give it a try. I tried some Ultra Black that I had on hand. That was a mistake. It smoked like crazy.

So I did some research and found that the Ultra Copper is the most heat resistant. It's supposed to work on exhaust manifolds up to 600 degrees F. I bought tube of the Ultra Copper, cleaned off the Ultra black well, and assembled the exhaust system with the Ultra Copper.

I just started the Savage up and let it idle for a bit while I tried to check for leaks. The exhaust sounded a bit different and I found no leaks. But after a few minutes the Permatex Ultra Copper started smoking at the joint between the header and the adapter.

Has anyone else had this experience?

Am I using the wrong sealant?

I assume the smoking will stop sooner or later, but is that normal?

Title: Re: Question about sealing the exhaust with Permat
Post by barry68v10 on 11/12/06 at 18:05:39

The muffler paste is probably your best bet, but it needs to be on the parts of the pipe that will force it INTO the possible openings. You need to put it on the outside of the pipe that slips inside the muffler. If you've got regular exhaust pipe clamps, you can just tighten them down and seal the leak.

One thing to check is to make sure the muffler is pushed up past the slits in the adaptor plate, otherwise you'll never get that thing sealed.

Title: Re: Question about sealing the exhaust with Permat
Post by barry68v10 on 11/12/06 at 18:06:56

Upon further review, "adaptor plate" is not the correct term, "adaptor tube" would be a better way to describe it...

Title: Re: Question about sealing the exhaust with Permat
Post by Steve530 on 11/12/06 at 18:58:45

Thanks for the reply.

My adapter slips over the header and into the muffler. When I tried the "muffler paste" I just put it on the outside of the joints. I see your point about applying it so that it is forced into the joint but exhaust gases. That makes a lot of sense, and that is what I've done with the Permatex.

Hopefully, the Permatex will stop smoking and the muffler will still be sealed. If it fails, I'll give the "muffler paste" another try.

BTW, I have a HD clamp on the muffler. It is a very good design. The adapter to header joint is clamped with a "T-Bolt Clamp". It is also very strong.

At first I used an auto type saddle clamp. I think it may have distorted the pipe a bit, but not enough to keep it from sealing. Maybe I need to head back to the muffler shop for a second try.

Title: Re: Question about sealing the exhaust with Permat
Post by Reelthing on 11/12/06 at 19:32:24

Steve530, like Barry describes it, put the sealant on the pipe and slip the muffler over it - but how much play do you have? neither sealant is going to stay in there if it's a large gap

Title: Re: Question about sealing the exhaust with Permat
Post by Steve530 on 11/12/06 at 19:47:34

Reelthing,

There's not a lot of play. It's pretty difficult to remove the adapter from the header, and almost impossible to remove the adapter from the muffler. Of course, it could be out of round so that it's tight in the narrow direction with gaps on the long side.

Still, I think it's sealed well. At this point my problem is the smoke coming from the Permatex. It has a very distinctive smell. I've brought it up to temperature about three times now and it's smoking a lot less. The stuff has to burn off eventually.

I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem with Permatex and if I am using the right sealant.

Title: Re: Question about sealing the exhaust with Permat
Post by Reelthing on 11/12/06 at 20:17:45

I haven't used it on an exhaust pipe - on the head and such but it doesn't get near that hot there - or at least won't but once - should be interesting to know if seals - do you have the oem gasket on the header pipe?

Title: Re: Question about sealing the exhaust with Permat
Post by Steve530 on 11/12/06 at 20:42:31

No, the oem gasket stayed in the oem muffler. It seems really delicate and I didn't think I could successfully remove it. I asked the dealer parts guy about the gasket before I installed the Dyna muffler about 6 months ago. He couldn't find it on the parts diagram. Later someone here (maybe you) pointed me in the right direction of the gasket.

If I decide to get another adapter made, the gasket might be a good idea. The I could just have the adapter welded or brazed to the muffler, although it seems to seal pretty well.

Did you use the gasket?

Title: Re: Question about sealing the exhaust with Permat
Post by Reelthing on 11/12/06 at 21:12:18

yes I used them - there are two kinds a copper clad one that seems to reuse better and a soft fiber one that sticks big time - have a spare copper one part number 14771-24b01

Title: Re: Question about sealing the exhaust with Permat
Post by thumperclone on 11/13/06 at 07:28:57

ive had various muffs on and have used permatex when using the adaptor tube never any leaks or smoke,smell..i let the permatex "cure" at least overnite b4 starting bike..think tube says 24 hours... good luck!!!

Title: Re: Question about sealing the exhaust with Permat
Post by Jim_R on 11/13/06 at 08:52:23

try cutting a coke or pepsi can into strips of alum. This helps with leaks on exhaust with NO SMELL! yay

Title: Re: Question about sealing the exhaust with Permat
Post by Steve530 on 11/13/06 at 14:49:37

Thumperclone,

Thanks for your reply.

I let it cure about 22 hours before startingit up. The Ultra Copper was a lot better than the Ultra Black. I started it 3 times and there was lwss smoke each time. It does seem to have sealed, though.

Which Permatex did you use? There's like 10 varieties.

Steve

Title: Re: Question about sealing the exhaust with Permat
Post by Steve530 on 11/13/06 at 14:51:33

Jim_R,

Thanks for replying.

I tried to fit a shim from a soda can, but thre was not enough clearance. The fit was too tight.

Steve

Title: Re: Question about sealing the exhaust with Permat
Post by thumperclone on 11/13/06 at 17:37:02

Steve530 wrote:

think it was ultra copper can check later monyawn ah..(:) if you need part number...

Title: Re: Question about sealing the exhaust with Permat
Post by Steve530 on 11/13/06 at 17:41:20

Thumperclone,

I'll take you word for it about the Ultra Copper. :)

I'll see if the smoke goes away after I get a shance to run it a bit.

Title: Re: Question about sealing the exhaust with Permat
Post by Dynobob on 11/13/06 at 21:47:49

I run Ultra Copper Permatex on all my cycle exhausts. You need to let it dry 24 hours before running the engine. I have never seen any of my numerous bikes smoke because of it. It is good stuff. I've had some on my Savage with a SuperTrapp for about a year and a half. If you run your bike before it dries, you'll blow it out of the connection too.

Make sure your parts are sqeaky clean. Use some solvent (lacquer thinner or mineral spirits) and some fine steel wool to get everything tidy before applying the stuff.

Title: Re: Question about sealing the exhaust with Permat
Post by Steve530 on 11/17/06 at 16:38:32

Thanks, Dynobob.

I use some sandpaper on the surfaces, but I did not use a solvent.

I've been out of town for a few days so I haven't had a chance to work with it lately. I plan on working on it tomorrow.

Title: Re: Question about sealing the exhaust with Permat
Post by Steve530 on 11/18/06 at 14:38:02

An update on my Permatex sealant issue.

I discovered the noxious oder I was smelling was probably the soap solution I was using for leak detection. I used a different soap today and I did not notice the odor. Turns out the Dawn dishwashing detergent I was using last week smells really bad when it gets hot.

It looks like the adapter is leaking where it fits over the header pipe. When I first installed the adapter, I used an automotive type "U" bolt and saddle clamp. I snugged it up really tight and it deformed the pipe. The section where the clamp was is smaller diameter than the rest of the adapter. I think this may be a problem, so I'm going to try to expand the pipe and re-seal it. I may have to cut that section out.

The exhaust flange bolts were loose again, too. :(

Title: Re: Question about sealing the exhaust with Permat
Post by Ed_L. on 11/18/06 at 15:46:19

There used to be a ultra red permatex that I've used on exhaust systems. Never had any problems with it and it worked better than the ultra black or copper. Getting it in the joints is the key to any sealer.