|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Oil cooler install update /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1162649522 Message started by barry68v10 on 11/04/06 at 06:12:02 |
|
Title: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 11/04/06 at 06:12:02 Ok, it's cold out so this isn't a high interest item, however. JIC-6 or AN-6 doesn't fit well in the M14x1.25 thread in the oil inject plug. really hard to stop leaks. I went to the dealership and bought a bolt with the exact thread for $3, then I drilled and tapped 1/8" pipe thread into it and was able to use a 50 cent pipe thread to hose barb adapter. I think this is THE BEST solution from a cost/reliability/time stand point. I've tabled the rest of this mod until the weather warms up, but my plan is to put a valve in-line so I can cut the oil cooler off in colder weather. Hope this helps anyone planning to do this mod over the winter, and I'll include pictures of my limited progress soon... |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by azjay on 11/04/06 at 06:14:49 thanks for the update, i now have two coolers to install before next summer, debby's HD didn't come with one either :-/. alot of folks keep the coolers circulating, but put covers over them in the winter, the extra oil isn't a bad thing. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 11/04/06 at 06:59:08 I completely agree! And even in cold whether, an air cooled engine can still have "hot spots" in the engine. If I can't find a reasonably priced valve ($2-3), then mine will circulate year-round as well. I'm also not going to block the original oil passage because I do think it will increase oil flow to the cylinder head which is the main place "hot spots" will occur. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by thumperclone on 11/04/06 at 08:55:54 where are you planning to put the return line from the cooler??classiccruser.com has high way hawk oil temp gauges and sender units(sender is 14/1.25 i think).. H.D. riders have complete oil cooler kits available to them that are model specific..we are forced to "engineer" most mods, ls 650 is great for tinkering... |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 11/04/06 at 13:44:50 I'll post pics if I can get my wife out there to take pics with digital camera, but... The return will go to a 1/8 NPT threaded in top of oil filter housing. (Just like Ed_L's setup.) |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 03/14/07 at 15:18:25 OK, warm weather is here, and I'm getting ready to dive into the finish of the oil cooler install. My wife's broken camera is due to arrive next week so look for pictures...I plan to start next weekend. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Greg_650 on 03/14/07 at 15:29:19 Glad that you brought this one back... The valve that you install will be a 3 way valve to bypass the oil in cold weather? |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 03/14/07 at 17:49:24 No, I won't block the primary oil passage. The oil cooler will provide an alternate path with a valve in-line. I think because of the larger diameter tube for the oil flow, the cooler should get close to 50% of the flow. This should increase oil flow in hot weather and provide cool oil to the top of the cylinder. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 03/14/07 at 17:51:11 If I find, in fact, the cooler is not getting sufficient oil flow, I'll be forced to block the primary passage and use a 3-way valve setup. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by thumperclone on 03/14/07 at 18:12:56 got a hwy hawk oil temp guage for xmas had to pay a local machine shop $75 to fab an adaptor at the front plug location...couple of 70 + days here and havent got above 50c(90F) yet .. summer and up to 100f days are on the way will see if a cooler is just a frill.. thinkin so.. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Greg_650 on 03/14/07 at 20:43:58 So all the oil isn't being routed through the filter then? |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 03/15/07 at 03:35:35 All the oil will go thru the oil filter, some of it will go thru the oil cooler first. If you refer back to the oil passage picture in the tech section, you'll notice the front oil plug is an oil pressure source. If you tap into that port, and dump it back into the top of the filter housing, you have an alternate oil path. You could block the passage inside the oil filter housing and get all the flow thru the oil cooler. The only concern I have is the oil returning to the top of the housing. Flow may be directed straight into the oil filter element. I need to machine the return to direct flow away from the element. Does that clarify what I'm doing? |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Greg_650 on 03/15/07 at 05:10:29 barry68v10 wrote:
Well...photo time again. I posted these somewhere ??? I forget why. Think I was chatting with Kropatchek :P So you are taking the oil from the pump at the chrome plug on the right side of this photo (to go to the cooler)? (the plug isn't marked) http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/OilFlow01-1.jpg And you are returning the oil to the filter at the plug in the bottom left of this photo? (the plug isn't marked) http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/OilPassage-1.jpg |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Ed_L. on 03/15/07 at 07:15:33 I've been running an oil cooler for about six months, so far no problems. The supply line comes out of the bottom front plug, the M14x1.25 thread, to the cooler which came out of an GX'er and returns to a hole which I drilled and tapped in the side cover above the oil filter. As best as I can tell about 1/3 of the oil flow goes thru the filter while the rest follows the stock passage ways. It would be easy enough to plug one internal passage and have the total flow go thru the cooler but so far I don't see the need for it. The cooler starts to warm up after 10 miles, hot at the inlet and warm at the outlet and gets hot after 20 miles so there must be a good flow thru it. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Greg_650 on 03/15/07 at 08:31:52 Ed_L. wrote:
Got a picture? |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 03/15/07 at 14:54:54 Greg, Ed is where I got the idea to tap into the top of the filter housing. My setup will be very similar to his. So Ed, you think MOST of the oil flows thru the cooler? |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Ed_L. on 03/15/07 at 15:10:05 I'd guesss about half the oil flows thru the cooler once everything gets warm. I'm only using a 3/8 ID line which restricts the flow a little bit. The internal lines in the block are about the same size so I'm guessing the flow splits 50/50. Here's a picture of the complete cooler before a shot of rattlecan black paint http://www.bikepics.com/pictures/654677/ |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Greg_650 on 03/16/07 at 05:55:35 Ed_L. wrote:
I really hope that you won't mind my input... Not trying to be critical, but I'm almost wondering if your flow is even 50/50. Truth is that I really like the idea and that cooler really has a nice look on the front like that. The reason that I wonder about the flow is that the stock oil passage is relatively short from the pump to the filter, there are only 2 changes in direction (90 deg) and the diameter is constant. In that distance, I'll bet there is only a small drop in pressure (pump to filter). Follow me? Now with the cooler, you have additional direction changes in flow through the fittings, plus all the internal "zig-zag" passages, and possibly a reduction in the diameter too. All of these add a resistance to flow. So, what I imagine could happen is that you have just about the same oil pressure at both the inlet and outlet hose going to the cooler, and since the oil is gonna follow the path of least resistance, that once the air is purged from the cooler the oil flow is going to essentially "dead-head" and stop. Now, I'm not trying to be a PITA, but I do think that unless you redirect or restrict the oil flow in the stock passages, you really will have no flow through the cooler. I hope that you don't mind, ...I just think that your great installation idea might just need a little bit more tweaking before you'll get any benefit from it. Just need a little way to force the oil to go through the cooler. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by LANCER on 03/16/07 at 06:13:04 Was there an oil temp or cyl head temp on the engine taken before and after the cooler was installed? If so, that would provide some hard data whether the cooler was functioning as designed. It would be good if the next person to do the install had a cyl head or oil temp temp guage and a pressure guage inline with the cooler. Both can be used for before and after comparisons. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by azjay on 03/16/07 at 06:45:29 Greg_650 wrote:
the air cooled vws, used a parallel oil cooler, very similar to the set up here. they added a spring loaded plunger, that reacted with oil psi, to effect a cooler bypass during hi-psi (engine cold) nearly full by-pass , mid-psi (engine warm) partial by-pass, which is what ed & barry have, lo-psi (engine hot) no by-pass. the combination of oil psi and oil volume will send oil every where it can, some more than others, perhaps. as was mentioned, the oil cooler input/output temps change with engine temp, i dont think convection would do that, try grabbing a heater hose on a car, that has the heater turned off, then again with water circulating. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Ed_L. on 03/16/07 at 07:32:57 I've been thru all this before which is why I tend not to talk much about the design. If there is no flow thru the cooler then why does it get too hot to touch after 20 miles? During warmup the cooler goes from hot at the inlet to warm at the outlet which proves that there is a good amount of flow thru it. I'm only guessing at a 50/50 split, it might be more like 2/3 thru the engine, 1/3 thru the cooler, either way it works. As I said before it would be easy enough to block the passage to get full flow thru the cooler, I just didn't see the need for it. If you don't like the design then don't do it to your bike, if you've got something better then go ahead and do it, it's a free world!!! |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Greg_650 on 03/16/07 at 08:20:57 Ed_L. wrote:
Don't be defensive. Not trying to stir the pot, but just trying to help the design. There might be temp changes, but the bottom line is how much flow? And how to get the most out of it... As is, I imagine that you get some flow, but on the other hand if you create any restrictions to divert the oil you have to be careful not to cause any significant pressure losses before the oil gets to the filter, bottom end and other engine parts. As well, just because the outlet is cooler than the inlet doesn't necessarily mean efficiency. It could mean lower flow too. The inlet side is through a 1/8" pipe fitting? That is a reduction of how much from the oil passage? Just offering food for thought. Either way, I think the idea is great. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by justin_o_guy on 03/16/07 at 11:38:26 Flow can be determined quickly by putting a section of clear tubing in line with the discharge end of the cooler. Then the oil coming out can be seen. Once the flow is determined the clear tube removed. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Ed_L. on 03/16/07 at 12:58:08 Didn't mean to take a snap, just am having a bad day and over reacted a bit. I am planning to close off the internal passage next oil change to divert all the flow to the cooler. Also need to change over to tubing that has a stronger sidewall so it doesn't squish down going around bends which is where most of the flow is lost. The entire design was an experiment just to see if it was possible and soo far it has worked better than expected. Running a thermostat and three way valve would be cool but a but of overkill. Really can't see the need for it except during real cold weather or short trips, beside that the engine generates plenty of heat so a cooler will be an advantage almost all of the time. A thermostat and small electric cooling fan would really help when stuck in traffic. Even with the cooler the engine still get hot with stop n go traffic. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Greg_650 on 03/16/07 at 13:58:16 Ed_L. wrote:
Of course, I've been watching this topic and just waiting to see how it was going... I've thought about this, and if you don't mind I have some other thoughts...it simple concerns flow and pressures, and as we know from some past thread, the Savage oil pump is kinda low performance anyway. I was just thinking about pressures as I used to do on the job, and in some ways you can also compare this kind of thing to electrical circuits. With that, think about the oil pressure as voltage and each fitting, change in direction, or reducer as a resistance or a load. The first comparison is the way you have it now...it's like a parallel circuit. The line with the highest resistance will have the highest voltage drop (the cooler). The line with the lowest resistance will have the lowest voltage drop (the stock passage). Therefore you'll have more flow through the stock oil passage, and less through the cooler. Now on the other hand, if you eliminate the stock oil setup and run all of the oil through the cooler it will become a series circuit. With each fitting you'll have a pressure drop and a loss in flow. Every 90 deg turn will take a bit more....on and on it will subtract until it gets to the filter compartment. So to really do it...in my way of thinking...is that you have to have larger lines and capacity through every bit of the cooler setup. The velocity of the oil will slow in the larger lines and cool better and when it goes into the filter the pressure will be higher. I'm just concerned with the final delivery pressure to the rest of the engine....as shown here... http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/OilFlow01-1.jpg Now, of course, I know that you can see what you have and know better than I, but what got my attention was the 1/8" pipe fitting that your cooler connects to. I know that you did that to adapt it to the engine, but what if it lowers your oil pressure to the crankshaft? What you have now is safe for the engine, but I'd be worried about isolating the flow through the cooler at this point. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Ed_L. on 03/16/07 at 14:24:09 Greg, that's pretty much my thoughts on it also, I compare hydralic flow to electricity a lot and having the cooler in parallel allows flow to pick it's own path, some thru the cooler the rest thru the engine which is the best of both worlds. When I put the system together I used fittings with 3/8 ID which matches the pathways in the engine. Even with all the twists and elbows I don't expect any major pressure drops thru the system. I'll install a couple tees with gauges first to check for any pressure drop. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Greg_650 on 03/16/07 at 14:32:28 Ed_L. wrote:
There you go. Now we're getting technically inclined :P |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 03/16/07 at 18:17:38 Greg, my motivation for installing the cooler the way I have it designed is two-fold: 1) You absolutely will have some flow thru the cooler regardless of tube size simply because of the pressure differential. Therefore, you will get some cooling benefit and that benefit will increase with increased oil temperature and therefore lower viscosity. 2) You SHOULD get more oil flow to the head because of less overall restriction of oil flow from the pump to the filter housing. This should improve lubrication to the top of the cylinder head which is the weak link from a lube standpoint. I've thought about several different designs, and settled on this one for the benefits with a severe limitation on detractors, i.e. no matter what, oil flow to top will NOT DECREASE. The main question in my mind can only be cleared up by actual test data, which I intend to provide once my setup is complete. I thought about the clear tubing option, but not a big fan of that option due to limited tube strength. Like the temp gauge route but must be careful to test in same conditions. Another route is to measure actual heat carried from oil cooler with a given oil temp, which would be the best way to determine efficiency. Just not sure how I'd set up a test of the last case ??? |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by thumperclone on 03/16/07 at 19:13:52 [quote author=barry68v10 link=board=RubberSideDown;num=1162649522;start=25#27 date=03/16/07 at 18:17:38]Greg, my motivation for installing the cooler the way I have it designed is two-fold: 1) You absolutely will have some flow thru the cooler regardless of tube size simply because of the pressure differential. endquote.. to a point because at the front port its a straight shot to the cooler lines from the pump.. id say the top of the cooler should be lower than any upper head oil passages... |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 03/16/07 at 19:39:04 Quote:
True if there's no oil in the cooler, not true if the cooler is completely filled with oil. Case in point: you can siphon water thru a tube that travels up first as long as: 1) the tube is filled with liquid 2) the exit point is lower than the intake So this is only a factor after install on initial startup provided theres enough oil pressure to provide an initial fill... |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by verslagen1 on 03/16/07 at 22:11:58 so are you going to starve the head while the cooler fills? |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by justin_o_guy on 03/16/07 at 22:58:31 I thought about the clear tubing option, but not a big fan of that option due to limited tube strength. Like the temp gauge route but must be careful to test in same conditions. Another route is to measure actual heat carried from oil cooler with a given oil temp, which would be the best way to determine efficiency. Just not sure how I'd set up a test of the last case Huh I wouldn't USE the clear tube longer than to determine the flow rate. Just as a test. An hour? |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Rockin_John on 03/17/07 at 00:47:52 justin_o_guy wrote:
With a gauge port at input and output, I'd think a couple of cheap bi-metal thermometers would tell all that needed to be known about temp differential: http://www.weissinstruments.com/tempbimetal.htm |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 03/17/07 at 03:54:07 Quote:
Good question! I think the answer is maybe for a little while on first start up. But after first startup, you can keep the cooler filled. After that I think you improve oil flow to the head all the time, including subsequent starts. That, at least, is a theory that will be easy to prove once the project is complete. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 03/17/07 at 03:58:26 Quote:
I went to the site and couldn't determine how much they cost. What are we talking about here, $1, $5, $50? Any idea? |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Greg_650 on 03/17/07 at 05:17:29 barry68v10 wrote:
You'll get some. I may have been too negative in my initial post, but I was considering the cooler from a maximum flow view point. Can you remove those brass fitting and drill them out as large as possible? Quote:
Still have to question on this one. The reason being is that the pump (upstream) and the passageways (downstream) are not changed. The only way to know would be to put the gage on the filter housing, both with and without the use of the cooler. Can you do that? If you can confirm that pressure is increased in the housing, with the cooler installed, then it might increase flow.[/quote] Quote:
Clear tubing wouldn't help much. You couldn't really see through a reinforced piece of clear tubing anyway. How about testing it with a gage on the filter housing? Unfortunately it seems like you'd need another hole...or another side case... Of course, as you stated early on, if you feel heat at the cooler, then logically heat is being carried away from the engine. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 03/17/07 at 06:55:38 Quote:
I agree with you here. My assumption was that the filter housing and later would have less restriction than the pump to filter housing. That is not necessarily a valid assumption. I wonder if there's a way to take the cooled oil directly to the top of the head? Although I think we already discussed this option and shot it down, tho I can't specifically remember... |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 03/17/07 at 06:57:43 Yikes! What happened to my last post? I didn't look that way when I typed it... Quote:
What it should have said was, "My assumption was..." |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 03/17/07 at 06:58:36 ARRRGGGHHHH! I really dislike that word filter! The word is A$$umption! |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Greg_650 on 03/17/07 at 07:17:03 barry68v10 wrote:
What's funny is that when I look your message "quoted" the word is correct. A_S_S_umption! Is the ID of your fittings, hose, and cooler larger than the stock oil passageways? That is the only way the resistance through your add-on would be lower. Rerouting the oil to the head doesn't sound doable to me. I'm sure that long oil passage inside the case is designed to distribute the oil in particular ratios to the top, bottom, and tranny (especially with that little brass jet) |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by azjay on 03/17/07 at 07:23:49 Ed_L. wrote:
didn't mean to imply a need for a t-stat, or control, simply reenforcing the parallel cooler design as "tried and true". i totally agree with full time flowing, more oil in circulation is better! ed, THANKS for leading the way! |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Rockin_John on 03/17/07 at 07:43:59 barry68v10 wrote:
I just used that site as an example because it had a good selection and pictures, but if you want to contact them: http://www.weissinstruments.com/contact.htm I'm sure they'll be glad to set prices. They may be expensive, but I know there are lots of bi-metal gauges available in the $5-$10 range if you shop around. They are used a lot in heating and air conditioning, and come in lots of temp ranges for anything from chilled water/refrigerent to boiler water/steam. Lots of other industrial and food processing uses where they can't be extremely expensive. Put the phrase: bi-metal temperature gauge into Google and explore! |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by justin_o_guy on 03/17/07 at 14:25:22 Guys, this isn't intended to run down the road, just a test, minutes long. I would splice a short piece of clear, not opaque, not reinforced, just clear tubing, onto the outlet of the cooler so I could see, just to get a general idea, the flow thru the cooler. Will it generate data that would ever be included in a manual? No way. But, it would give a guy a fair idea how much oil is flowing thru the cooler. It would make it easy to see if it was just a drizzle, for sure. It would cost a quarter & take 10 minutes to set up. The pressure & temperature wouldn't allow the tubing to last all that long I suspect. Isn't the oil pressure pretty low? Did I read somewhere it was about 7 pounds? |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 03/17/07 at 14:31:56 I agree justin, my point is Ed_L is getting some pretty good head off his which proves to me it is getting decent flow. Greg, my tube/fittings are slightly larger than stock passage. I expect under 50% flow from my setup. Maybe 30-40%, I'm guessing. Now, if that improves overall cooling by 10%, I'll consider that significant. But, more importantly, I think it may improve head cooling by 50% or more, since the head isn't really air cooled very well anyway. Obviously, these numbers are WAGs at this point. Some testing once install is complete should give better approximations. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 03/17/07 at 14:33:22 Change the word "head" to "heat" in the previous post. I.e. "Ed is getting some pretty good HEAT..." I don't know what's wrong with my fingers. They're not typing quite what I'm telling them too :-[ |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Ed_L. on 03/17/07 at 17:07:23 I've been trying to figure out how to check the flow thru my set up. It would be real nice to have some type of an idea as to how much oil gets diverted thru the cooler. Yeah guys you've got me thinking, lookout. The plan is to set up a air tight 16 oz soda bottle with a to and from line downstream from the cooler and time how long it takes to fill when the engine is running. Still trying to figure out how to get a airtight seal on the tubing going into the top of the soda bottle, maybe a BIG blob of silicon would work. The plan would be to warm the engine up, install the bottle, clamp off the line to the cooler, start the engine and then unclamp the line and measure how fast the bottle fills. Even with smaller tubing the volumn would be the mimimum flow thru the cooler. Something to work on, I'll let everybody know if it works. I don't mind a little heat or head either ;D |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by justin_o_guy on 03/17/07 at 17:46:59 Understand I am interested in doing this. Also, I am not up on oil passages, how much oil goes where & how it all works, so my question is not an attempt to discredit anything. Does the cooler drain while it's parked? If so, does any part of the engine starve for oil while it's refilling? I would like to have an oil cooler on the bike.Having the additional oilis good & even if it was just a tank instead of tubing & cooling fins, would help some. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Greg_650 on 03/18/07 at 05:47:21 barry68v10 wrote:
Why don't you think the head is getting cooled very well. It is hard to see when installed but the top of the head is almost open to air all over the top. There is only one place, near the right rear where the head is not open to air. When the bike is moving, so is air, I do believe. Check it with a flash light, you'll see the passages. BTW - I have an old floor fan, that I often set behind the front tire when letting the bike idle for long periods. Works good. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Greg_650 on 03/18/07 at 06:10:20 justin_o_guy wrote:
I was sitting here thinking about Harley oil tanks, and then I remembered this post. Harley is a dry sump, so we could probably take some notes from that setup. Does all the oil normally drain out of the filter compartment when the engine is off? I don't think so...not too much anyway...seems to leak pretty good when you pull the filter cover. Would the oil cooler drain back too? Not so sure either...oil would have to be displaced with air to do that. I think that it might take a long time anyway. Might hot have to worry about the head being too dry at startup because of the little oil reservoir under the cam shaft, too. See sigline. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by thumperclone on 03/18/07 at 07:14:52 had a cooler on thumper clone when had modified engine insattel(horz honda style thumper).. oil would drain back after shut down had insalled a head breather with filter at the intake rocker arm access cap..(i think)the ls 605 has head breather tubes which over flow(if any) into the air box..oil will settle back into the lowest point.after shut down which will show an over full condition at the site glass.. this is a low pressure oil system 7.1 - 10.7 psi sm shows taking reading at the front plug...part # 09915-74510 gauge, 09915-72410 gauge attachment..would think one could use the latter as a way to feed the cooler..tho i may stick out a bit too far...id still like a 12 mm banjo for the return into the bottom plug...i found and purchased the banjo bolt but the threads are wrong.. |
|
Title: New Idea Post by grim on 03/22/07 at 02:53:55 The oil coolers are too complicated. Just attach a cupholder to the side of your tank/fork and put a squirt bottle in it. In stop/go traffic just give a couple squirts. It is not like you'll be too busy riding going nowhere.... ;) |
|
Title: Re: New Idea Post by LANCER on 03/22/07 at 03:33:45 grim wrote:
Your logic is inescapable. ;D |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Greg_650 on 03/22/07 at 08:53:15 Creative thinking has been unleashed :P |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Trippah on 03/22/07 at 16:31:01 Greg- is it hard to bungee the floor fan to the pilllion rider's back rest?? ;D |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by verslagen1 on 03/22/07 at 16:48:49 Naw, it's easy. It's the cord I have trouble with. ;D |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Greg_650 on 03/23/07 at 06:31:50 Trippah wrote:
Really hard on mine without a backrest :P |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 03/23/07 at 15:13:26 Good discussion fellas! I'm back from my week-long work-trip, so I plan to finish this project soon and let you all know how I fare. I plan to install an inline ball-valve to shut off the cooler in cold weather and ensure oil stays in the cooler upon shut-down. For the flow test: I think idling the engine with a fan running thru the cooler and measuring incoming and outgoing air will give a good indication of flow...we'll see... ;D |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by Ed_L. on 03/23/07 at 19:20:04 I'm still working on a way to measure the flow thru my cooler. The soda bottle in line with the cooler was a bit too half as$ed so I'm working on a piece of 2" pvc tubing that's capped on each end and has hose barbs set up for an in and out. I'll use a piece of clear tubing on the out line so I can tell when it is full of oil. The plan is to let the cooler fill, clamp the "to" line, shut the engine off and then hook up the chamber. Once that is done I'll start the engine and let the oil pressure stablize then unclamp the line to the measuring chamber and time how long it takes till I see oil coming thru the clear tubing that's on the "out" line on the measuring chamber. I still need to finish the PVC chamber and measure it's volumn but I'm hoping to keep it around .5 liters so I won't oil starve the engine. I also found that my multimeter has a thermometer probe good to 300 degrees so I'll be checking temperatures as I go along.The parameters I'll be testing will be flow at cold startup during idle and at different rpm's while cold. I'll also check hot oil flows at the same rpm's as the cold flow data points. I need to see if it is possible to attach the temp probe to the back of the cooler and take some readings while riding, maybe a little duct tape and ty wraps will do the trick. I'm interested to see how much if any of a temperature drop occurs between the inlet and outlet while riding. It is going to take a bit of work but should be worth it. ;D |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by grim on 03/23/07 at 20:05:59 You engineers need to patent this stuff and sell it. $$$ 8) |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by verslagen1 on 03/25/07 at 09:17:36 I think a simple trick is all you need. You'll need a thermometor on the engine or even the cooler. Then cover the cooler with a cardboard box or tinfoil or whatever. Ride your favorite route until hot. Keep a record of temps, oil & air. Remove the cover and repeat. After all, temp drop is what you really want to know. Any thing you do to measure the oil flow will affect the actual flow mainly cause you're dependant upon a very small volume of oil. Filling a T'd off cylinder is your best idea and may work. I'd add an equal sized cylinder in the T section full of oil. So, as the hot oil comes in, the new oil goes out preventing stavation and throwing off your measurement. I got some temperature strips that can be applied anywhere you want to read temperature. Haven't put them on yet. Will post later how they work. http://www.framebreakerracing.com/New_Framebreaker/Mototemp_Strips.html |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 03/25/07 at 09:44:37 I like the temp strip idea! ;D |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by verslagen1 on 03/31/07 at 23:50:34 I got the strip on. I put it on the clutch cover, right over the oil passage at the top and it must be right after where the branch that goes up to the head. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1151246239 Easily readable... while stopped. The temp shows up as a khacki kind of color. The rest are dark, and the one under temp is a dark blue. My commute is 25 miles and most of the way at 70. Off the freeway and the temp strip says 70-80°C. And then I come to a dead stop. And the temp starts climbing up until all the bars are dark, over 90°C. Time to start planning a new route or look for a bar. ;D |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by verslagen1 on 04/05/07 at 11:44:38 I've been planning to tear into the cam chain soon as I'm over 20k and want to work on the bike with a wrench instead of a shovel. And I've been hoping to do this right after taxes, but what I'm seeing has really got me concerned. A week after putting the temp strip on it's not reading anything. After a week of noting it's 40° after a few minites of startup to 70-80° off the freeway and a couple of 'dam this traffic jam' up and over 90° and a 'this thing works great' feeling to nothing at all has me concerned. Specially after seeing Grim's oil pump. This is not supposed to get burned out. So, the big question... is oil still flowing? How can I tell? |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by grim on 04/05/07 at 12:12:41 Are you questioning if the oil pump is burned out? I'm sure it still flows. I know that my situation was unique because I bought it used and the previous owner probably did not take care of it. The black plastic that you saw was the cam chain guide, and the oil I took out was thick and grey (no oil change in a long time). So if you take care of your bike, use a magnet oil plug, maintain your cam chain tensionor (mine previously fell off and took off a lot of metal in the case), you should be fine....just get in there and check your tensionor. Wait for an oil leak to check your oil pump or if you love working on the bike, check it now.....JUST STAY ORGANIZED. |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 04/07/07 at 13:04:17 Quote:
That's exactly what you should expect with an air cooled bike. When you stop, all the heat just starts building up inside the engine from the work that you just did. That's why I like the idea of an oil cooler so much. Some extra surface area to radiate and conduct heat when not moving, and added insurance in hot temps. Well, no use sitting around here when I have an oil cooler to finish installing... ;D |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by barry68v10 on 04/07/07 at 16:38:12 RATS!!! I got so involved in routing oil lines and tinkering with fittings that I didn't bother to look to see if I had the right drill bit to tap into the oil filter housing. Turns out I don't. Well, guess I'll have to wait to finish. But, with the extra time I started rethinking this a little. Anyone know what size the port into the oil filter housing is? I may thread that and restrict the flow a little to force more oil thru the cooler. Thoughts? |
|
Title: Re: Oil cooler install update Post by justin_o_guy on 04/07/07 at 17:44:24 Nope I got nothing to offer. I am just watching & hoping what you folks do works out. Maybe I will do the same later. |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |