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Message started by georgekathe on 10/30/06 at 14:05:50

Title: Help - bike won't run hardly
Post by georgekathe on 10/30/06 at 14:05:50

Hi - couple of weeks ago took carb apart & replaced white spacer with one 2/3 as thick. @ same time took out 2 little washers (not on diagram & seem to me superfluous) between the clip on the needle & the washer above the spring.

bike would only run on full choke & then very poorly - any opening of gas would kill it.

so, put it all back as it was. & it seemed to be back to normal - odd pop when snapping shut throttle but that was about it.

lately has been more temperamental to start in mornings (when I leave for work it is in the upper 30s) - needing choke then running down road only on choke (or dies) popping & banging. after longish ride stops banging & can put choke in.

today was worse - would start but any gas would kill bike - went down road but hads to come back for car.

tried later today when warmer - still a pig & would only run poorly on choke. have a 150 main (put in by mechanic before I got up the courage to rip into carb), pilot left standard according to him @ 52.5. air/fuel screw is about 2 & 3/4 turns out. like I said standard white spacer.

bear in mind am in desert @ 4,500 feet so usual sea level jetting doesn't apply.

I have a slip on K & N filter & a slash cut hard chrome muffler.

so - any assistance out there would be gratefully received.

thanks in advance for help.

Title: Re: Help - bike won't run hardly
Post by mickthelimey on 10/30/06 at 18:03:39

Hi George,
mine was just like that after I did the mods,so like you I put it all back the way it was, I'm a stubern at times and I thought every one else seems to be doing it so I gave it another try,this time though I put in the larger main jet in and left the pilot standard ,only because I didn't have the right one to put in,I screwed the mixture screw all the way in,and then out three turns,now it was a bit nippy this morning (27) so I used full choke for a couple of minutes half choke for 5 minutes,then it was ok,ran like a charm.
Do you have a fuel filter on? you could have got a little dirt in the main jet, thats all I can think of.
Wait and see if Lancer chips in with some advice,he does know carbs thats for sure.

Title: Re: Help - bike won't run hardly
Post by lancer on 10/30/06 at 18:17:38

Sounds like it is broke to me.

I read your post but my brain is too tired to think right now ... I tried to go through it but I am forgetting a line as soon as I read it.
I will come back in the morning when I can think normally.
Sorry for the delay.

Title: Re: Help - bike won't run hardly
Post by babbalou on 10/30/06 at 19:31:59

Here's one remote possiblity. After one rejet awhile back, I left out the slide spring. It only ran with the choke out. Pushed in, it sputtered, backfired & barely got going. Pulled out, it ran OK. Then I saw that big spring on the garage floor. ::) I'm sure you didn't leave out that spring but I thought I'd mention it in case. Good luck. 8)

Title: Re: Help - bike won't run hardly
Post by Reelthing on 10/30/06 at 20:03:17

Was the slide very clean - no oily finger prints no anything ?

Title: Re: Help - bike won't run hardly
Post by Steve530 on 10/30/06 at 21:07:41

Sort of sounds like the slide isn't rising. You might want to confirm that it is lifting.

IIRC, there is an issue with orienting part of the diaphram assembly correctly. It might be a good idea to re-trace your steps with the rebuild and assure it's all done correctly.

Title: Re: Help - bike won't run hardly
Post by georgekathe on 10/30/06 at 21:52:38

thanks for help everyone.

will try screw further out, mick.

no, know I put slide spring in as almost didn't & noticed @ last minute!

maybe need to clean slide, reelthing & steve530 - was not overly careful to not get fingerprints on it. thanks.

steve530 - know got diaphragm lined up OK as friend & fellow countryman mickthelimey advised on need to do so in e-mail, pre my stripping carb.

lancer - would appreciate your revisit to this & any input you can give. thanks.

forgot to say last time I use iridium plug if that is any consequencies & last time I looked it might be a little sooty.

please note - took apart carb, had immediate trouble & put all back as was. 2 weeks later then started to get more difficult to start, accumulating in yesterday's real issue.

Title: Re: Help - bike won't run hardly
Post by azjay on 10/31/06 at 05:30:34

georgekathe wrote:

something is confusing me there ??? the spacer resides on top of the needle, below the clip should be your spring, and perhaps a washer on each end of the spring to ensure it doesn't get wrapped around the clip and to help keep the needle centered in the slide, i cant exactly remember, its been a while since i've been in there. has somebody been in there ahead of you, maybe an extra washer was installed to create more pressure on the spring to hold the needle tighter?

requiring constant choke, sounds like a vacuum leak, and the choke is compensating. check the vacuum line to the petc0ck, check the clamps around the carb, too tight can be as bad as too lose. good luck, keep us advised of what you find.

Title: Re: Help - bike won't run hardly
Post by lancer on 10/31/06 at 08:36:33

Only running on choke, then dies or run/choke and then runs but poorly........

Pilot circuit clogged up somewhere, check all passages and pilot jet itself. If you have not done so already, you need to get lots of carb cleaner and compressed air to blow out the lines. Be very careful about pushing wire into the passages to clean them out, it can damage the passages and block them with metal from the walls.
Also check pilot air adjusting screw and it's seat for dirt and damage.

As already mentioned, it sounds like the slide is not operating properly. You said you installed it correctly so the rubber diaphram is seated properly, but did you do a REALLY GOOD CLOSE UP INSPECTION of it to see if there are any tiny holes that would affect the vacuum operation? Hold it up to a light buld and scan for little holes. The overly rich running condition makes this a possibility, not allowing enough air to pass through for the amount of fuel & creating an overly rich mix.

Actually, since you will have the carb off the engine again you should take the carb down to its' naked nothingness. Every tiny piece. ... clean and blow out every orafice from from every angle 10 times, to insure all passage lines are as clean as new. Spend a good 30 minutes on this alone.
This should be the FIRST STEP for anyone who is trying to fix a carb problem.

Title: Re: Help - bike won't run hardly
Post by georgekathe on 10/31/06 at 13:03:06

bike won't start @ all now.

may be due to fouled plug - will see when lift tank.

took off vacuum line & blew through with finger over other end. no sign of leakage.

appreciate your help, Lancer, but did check diagphram & looked good - will check again though.

later - took top of carb off & checked diagrphram - no holes & cleaned slide. put back together & bike started (!) with no choke & gas & vacuum lines not hooked up!

when all hooked up again fired once & then that was it.

might get mechanic do overhaul(though begrudge $$) - I don't have access to compressed air among other things (like lack of expertise @ taking carb all the way down). darn, I hate paying dealers to do work, but in this case...

Title: Re: Help - bike won't run hardly
Post by Reelthing on 10/31/06 at 15:19:29

are you getting gas in the petc0ck vac line?

Title: Re: Help - bike won't run hardly
Post by georgekathe on 10/31/06 at 17:37:58

no - no gas in pet cack vac line. thanks for suggestion.

any more (relatively) simple ideas before I have to give up?

Title: Re: Help - bike won't run hardly
Post by Reelthing on 10/31/06 at 17:56:00

no offense but did you suck on it?

Title: Re: Help - bike won't run hardly
Post by barry68v10 on 10/31/06 at 17:57:59

Did you check to see if the bike starts or runs on PRI? Or whether that makes any difference...

The real question is "why does the bike start and run with nothing hooked up?"

Title: Re: Help - bike won't run hardly
Post by verslagen1 on 11/01/06 at 08:54:55

I think lancer has a clue, with no vacuum hooked up, it's running... are the vacuum ports open allowing air into the engine? Then the slide might be stuck.

I did my carb a couple of weeks ago (go for it george, it's not that hard) the routing of all the ports and sub-systems was convoluted, anyway I couldn't follow them all. Just learn to duck when you spray the cleaner. There is a number of o-rings and gaskets throughout. Take your time, print out one of the micro fiche from one of the parts sites to lay parts on and clean everything.

I wish someone made a rebuild kit like they do for every thing else. I feel like I'm being raped buying one part at a time. Of course it was 20 some odd years ago, but I only paid $10 bucks for a VW rebuild kit that included everything. Now I pay 30 for a freaking needle. Ouch!

Title: Re: Help - bike won't run hardly
Post by thumperclone on 11/01/06 at 17:34:30

george im off this week end need some help/sounding board/harraser/ will come and drink all your beer...
just kidding ...give me a call voice mail on house line now..

Title: Re: Help - bike won't run hardly
Post by lancer on 11/02/06 at 02:46:30

I want to encourage you to take a shot at working the carb. Like V-1 just said, it really is not all that hard to do once you get into it. Take your time, do one part at a time, clean as you go, lay everything out on a clean sheet/towel/? in the order it came off ... or according to the parts diagram you printed out. If you do not have compressed air then use the carb spray cans with the little red tube ... it will do a decent job & if you spray in one end of the passage and it comes out the other then you know it is clear.

REALLY ... YOU CAN DO IT !! You will learn something, you will feel good, and you will save $$$$$$

If Thumperclone is close enough to come over and help then it will make for a good day of Savage Fellowship ;D

This is kind of like $ex, once you do it, you will want to do it again and again and again ... it is fun to tweak those little knobbies back and forth, up and down, in and out ... you know the drill ! ;D

Title: Re: Help - bike won't run hardly
Post by thumperclone on 11/02/06 at 14:39:01

hey neighbor..have compressor will travel...

Title: Re: Help - bike won't run hardly
Post by georgekathe on 11/02/06 at 14:51:19

thumperclone - phone me re visit - am in all day tomorrow & be nice if you stop by.

george :)