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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Cam Chain Free Play? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1161707210 Message started by vroom1776 on 10/24/06 at 09:26:50 |
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Title: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by vroom1776 on 10/24/06 at 09:26:50 Hey gang, As you can see from my avatar (right click, view image), I've got the engine out and the head cover off... If I pull straight up on the cam chain, it moves a little. Should it? I know to measure the 20 (well, the number's in the manual) pitch, and check the tensioner, but so far I've not dug that deep. and then I wonder, if I'm doing the cam chain and tensioner... pop the head off.. replace the gasket? (I have one)... bore it out and coat it... pollish the intake and exhaust ports (and there's that darn stud that sticks up into the port! maybe some washers beneath it... maybe not a good idea...)... decisions, decisions... :-/ Oh, and I had an idea regarding the plug cap leak... a permanent solution! If I pop the head off, I am considering tapping it and making/buying a real bolt to fit in there w/ an O-ring. Any thoughts on this? A steel bolt should work, right (i.e. as opposed to Aluminum...)? The hole is a little less than 1", so a 1 1/18-7 UNC bolt should work... (tap size = 63/64) |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by Savage_Rob on 10/24/06 at 11:10:50 I've sometimes wondered why they didn't use something like the oil filler cap for that. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by vroom1776 on 10/26/06 at 07:44:23 Well, I've decided to take a chance and just slap the darn thing back together.... Anyway, on that plug, maybe a fine thread instead of a coarse thead... it holds oil... but then the oil drain plug is a more or less a coarse thread. And I was thinking of why suzuki maybe didn't use a large plug: oil capacity. A large plug would take up room that maybe oil should... |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by vroom1776 on 11/11/06 at 14:17:33 way too busy, engine not back together... >:( can anyone answer my original question? "If I pull straight up on the cam chain, it moves a little. Should it?" this is with the just the ehad cover off... nothing else... I don't want to do this to my engine: http://www.ls-650.de/techfotos/Kolben2.jpg http://www.ls-650.de/techfotos/Kopf.jpg it wasn't making any terrible sounds... just that it's been 10k miles or so since it was replaced (not by me)... but I do abuse my savage... I could pull all the stuff out and check it, but really I just want to get it back on the road Anyone? |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by Reelthing on 11/11/06 at 15:42:09 Yes, there is a little play if you pull up on it - about the only way to know for sure on the stretch is to measure the length - but to measure it right you gotta take it out - might as well replace it if you take it, not sure that sounds proper |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by barry68v10 on 11/11/06 at 16:31:36 The "better" way is to measure chain deflection in the center with a specified amount of force applied. Unfortunately, I don't know what the proper chain deflection and force is for an LS650 cam chain. Typically, any more than about 4% of total chain length with normal "hand pressure" means the thing has worn to the point it needs to be replaced. Sorry for the lack of specifics, but that's common chain theory... |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by Reelthing on 11/11/06 at 17:36:36 If one had the tools to gauge deflection it might be better, in their absence the Suzuki Service Manual is quite specific , measure the length of 21 pins of chain – the service limit is 128.9mm (5.07”) – longer than that it’s time to replace it. per the book http://reelthing.savageriders.com/pics/savage/camchain.JPG |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by barry68v10 on 11/11/06 at 17:51:30 Okay, that's a start! Let's do a little math...how many pins total is the CAM chain? You can measure deflection one-way to the other and divide by 2...Based on that number we can calculate the length of 21 pins. ;) |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by Reelthing on 11/11/06 at 19:49:05 132 pins - don't you have spare chain around? ;) |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by barry68v10 on 11/11/06 at 21:10:09 Ok. The easiest way to do this is force the center of the cam chain apart (not too tight, but enough to take the free-play out) and run a string or fishing line or whatever around the pins from 1-21 (be sure to hook the line on each pin as you go) and measure the line. That way you don't have to remove the chain or actually even do any "fancy" math. ;D Gladly the spec in the manual is more useful than I originally thought... Sorry, man. I already loaned out my spare cam chain :o |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by Kropatchek on 11/13/06 at 04:47:32 Another measurement can be taken to determine the wear of the camchain (and guides). When the Chain Tensioner is out for more than 18mm, measuring "piston -out" it's time to replace the chain AND the rear guide. That's the one pushed foreward by the Chain Tensioner. Greetz Kropatchek ;D |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by rokrover on 11/13/06 at 14:00:17 In all the discussions I've read here about the short-lived cam chain I don't remember anyone mentioning the drive and cam sprockets. Usual thing for bicycle chains is for all components to wear and then be replaced together. It's false economy to put a new chain on worn sprockets. So I guess the sprockets don't wear in the Savage motor? |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by vroom1776 on 11/13/06 at 16:36:23 Kropatchek wrote:
Spanner? I know what a spanner wrench is... I am well aware of the 20 pitch length. Just trying to figure out w/ a gut feeling if I need to replace the chain, tensioner, guides... ain't got much $$$ (or time). as far as how much I can pull it up, it is less than 2 mm, maybe less than 1 mm. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by Reelthing on 11/13/06 at 16:44:36 sounds about normal to me |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by thumperclone on 11/13/06 at 17:31:11 vroom1776 wrote:
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by Kropatchek on 11/14/06 at 04:08:20 Sorry , my mistake. :-[ I was reading the German forum, thinking in Dutch and translating in English at the same time. By "Spanner" I mean "Tensioner" Post corrected. Greetz Kropatchek ;D |
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Title: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by bentwheel on 11/14/06 at 08:39:29 For those who have not had their clutch side cover off or don't know what the tensioner looks like, here is a pic of one nearing its useful limit at 34,000 kms or 21,100 mi. http://w2.bikepics.com/pics/2006/11/14/bikepics-723205-800.jpg |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by Savage_Rob on 11/14/06 at 09:26:34 Kropatchek wrote:
With your command of the English language, it's easy to forget it's not your primary tongue. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by Kropatchek on 11/15/06 at 07:13:40 Had some hands-on experience the other day. My engine: approx 45,000 KM. Said to have a top end "Overhaul " at 30,000KM. Hmm? The tensioner extends for 18 mm. The chain is shorter than the Suzuki limit ( 21 pins 126.75 mm). The chainwheels do NOT look worn. The tensioner guide has a 1 mm deep channel. Don't know if this is normal , have not measured a new guide. Q: What is worn?? I.a.w. what needs replacing. Greetz Kropatchek >:( |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by barry68v10 on 11/15/06 at 16:49:12 What was the 20-pin chain length? Doesn't sound to me like you should replace anything... |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by vroom1776 on 11/16/06 at 08:48:41 thanks all! ... and Krops, your English is good. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by tfrawg75 on 11/16/06 at 15:34:51 I'm looking to doing this my bike has 25000 miles on it so sure it could use it. I'm just not sure what all I need could someone give a parts list while I'm in there I might as well change the tensioner also. Don't ya think? |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by Kropatchek on 11/17/06 at 09:17:13 barry68v10 wrote:
21 pins 126.75 mm , 2.15 mm shorter than the lenght to reject the chain. Greetz Kropatchek ;D |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Post by barry68v10 on 11/17/06 at 12:52:28 I think that puts you at about the halfway point for useful chain life. |
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