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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Cam Chain gone?? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1160678897 Message started by keeef on 10/12/06 at 11:48:17 |
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Title: Cam Chain gone?? Post by keeef on 10/12/06 at 11:48:17 Savage died on the way home yesterday! Just cut out, no nasty noises or bangs. It is now turning over real fast! I removed the plug and the valve covers and turned the engine by hand, but the valves are not moving. Whats the easiest way in to check the chain or tensioner? Any advice would be much appreciated. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by Reelthing on 10/12/06 at 12:35:38 might as well pull the head cover it's got to come off to replace it any way - hopefully it didn't bend any valves or bark the piston |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by Rogue_Cheddar on 10/12/06 at 17:14:17 A little info please. What year and how many miles? (as he bites his nails in trepidation) |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by keeef on 10/12/06 at 23:04:06 Its an '87 with 27000 miles on the clock. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by diesel on 10/12/06 at 23:19:16 think that chain went 'bout 10k on borrowed time. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by tfrawg75 on 10/13/06 at 07:32:21 I think it depends on how u ride mine is a 97 with 25000 and has'nt been changed but am going to do it this winter just to avoid any unnecessary damage. Winter is the perfect time for it. lol |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by Savage_Rob on 10/13/06 at 08:32:12 Seems like I've been hearing they tend to go somewhere between 20k and 30k miles. Is that about right or is it more like 15k-25k? 25k-30k? What's the average seem to be? I'm asking because I'm thinking of picking a point to just replace mine. I also noted Tfrawg75's comment on thinking it's dependent upon riding style. Anyone have any comments/thoughts on contributing factors? To me it seems that using good oil and changing it (and the filter) regularly should contribute to a longer life than it might otherwise have. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by vroom1776 on 10/13/06 at 08:48:12 Mine went around 16k miles. I'd been abusing the bike on the highway. The sucker was eating oil pretty bad, so I'd top it off, and a little over, every 100 miles or so. If I recall correctly, I was eating/loosing 1/2 qt every 100 miles. As for the abuse, 70-80 mph, for 6000 miles in six days. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by keeef on 10/13/06 at 11:41:10 Update. I took the right side casing off this evening to find the broken chain and tensioner. Have not yet removed the head but need to start making a shopping list. Apart from the chain and tensioner and gasket set what else should I replace while the engine is apart. I have never attempted this kind of job before so please feel free to offer advice and tips. Cheers Keeef |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by barry68v10 on 10/13/06 at 13:57:28 Oil quality and RPMs are the major contributing wear factors to a cam chain. RPMs ARE related to riding style but quick acceleration/deceleration won't have a significant effect if RPMs are kept at a reasonable level. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by tfrawg75 on 10/14/06 at 01:13:07 I agree with what barry says because the majority of my miles came from running 65 on the interstate for 120 miles 4 days a week. I change my oil every couple months which averages out to about every 4000 miles but I don't really get in the throttle that much. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by Max_Morley on 10/14/06 at 19:14:55 Back on Bert's Savage fprum the first failure I remember someone talking about was a rider from San Diego who comuted some 2 hours one way each day. HIw went 90,000+ miles. Mine went about 25K miles and I like to lug or thump mine and I think that makes the chain jerk more violently and wears the tensioner more. I use syn oil and change oil and filter between 2000 and 2500 miles. It isn't the strongest design with the steel plunger wearing on a aluminmu housing at an angle. Max |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by keeef on 10/15/06 at 11:18:32 Ok, I have removed head and chain tensioner, guide etc. Can I remove the primary drive gear without removing the clutch plate assy. Thanks Keeef |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by Max_Morley on 10/15/06 at 22:29:41 NO, the gear won't clear the clutch basket. So it has to come apart. Use a couple pennys clamped together between the gear teeth so you can loosen the crank shaft nut and please remember it is LH thread, that is righty loosey, lefty tighty just the opposite of normal. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by keeef on 10/15/06 at 23:26:00 Thanks Max Clymer manual says I need special tools to remove clutch which I don't have. Have you tried using impact driver and how about re-fitting and aligning clutch plates. Thanks Keeef |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by JerryAssburger on 10/15/06 at 23:57:41 Not to rain on the Savage Parade, but the cam-chain is the one nagging weakness that has me wondering if its worth tearing the engine down as "preventive maintenance".... One shouldn't have to do that, especially on an under-stressed engine design like the ls-650 . Just out of sheer paranoia, I'm changing oil every 1000 miles- but that only accounts for the last 3000 miles of 16000. Is there any quick way to gain a peep at the tensioner? |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by Kropatchek on 10/16/06 at 00:49:53 Max_Morley wrote:
Sorry to correct you Max. The clutch can stay in place. Only the primairy gear has to be removed. You're correct about the LH thread of the primairy gear nut. Greetz Kropatchek ;D |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by keeef on 10/16/06 at 05:39:59 I will give it a try and let you all know if the primary gear will come off with clutch in place. When I have replaced cam chain and beginning re-assembly is there any timing between the primary gear and clutch? |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by Max_Morley on 10/16/06 at 10:27:41 Ok, I'll have to rethink that. I used an new air gun to remove the crank nut and had it on tighten and fractured the cam chain drive gear so had to do some extra to make sure I didn't ruin anything else. Was going to replace the primary gear and it was on national backorder and none showing on the computer. Had a local aviation outfit do all the non-destructive tests possible to determine it wasn't cracked so reused it. Using the 2 pennies clamped together between the gears will allow you to use non air tools to R & & the clutch and crank nut. At other times I've used a strap wrench to hold the clutch basket. I now have the Vice Grip based tool that is made to hold all those things and have got great use out of it and used it to hold something else I was fixing that had sproket holes. Either a baler or vehcile A/C clutch. Max |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by keeef on 10/16/06 at 23:29:28 Max, can you remember the size of the nut the holds the primary drive gear. I need to order a socket to fit. Also can you recommend a parts supplier in the USA. I have been quoted around £250 GBP for the cam chain, tensioner, guide and gasket set in the UK which seems quite high to me. Thanks Keeef |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by pittmancharles on 10/18/06 at 18:30:13 how much would this cost to do if i took it to a shop? |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by vroom1776 on 10/19/06 at 07:08:17 I think at least a grand. There were a lot of problems w/ mine besides the ctt when I took mine it, and it was over 1k... this was years ago, too. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by Rogue_Cheddar on 10/19/06 at 09:52:32 keeef wrote:
Are you refering to the nut that holds the belt pulley? If so I believe I used a 32mm socket when replacing my drive belt. If not I'll just shutup for now. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by Jim_R on 10/19/06 at 10:30:58 After my cam chain went and blew my valves it cost me like 1.5k to get it fixed. OUCH! |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by vroom1776 on 10/19/06 at 10:32:07 Rogue_Cheddar wrote:
How the heck do you unbend that little tab that helps hold the drive pulley nut on there? |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by keeef on 10/19/06 at 12:37:14 The primary drive gear couples to the clutch and has the cam chain running underneath and I need the size of socket to undo it (left handed thread I believe). I think its approx 25-26mm. Once I have removed the gear I can fit a new chain and start reassembly. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by Rogue_Cheddar on 10/19/06 at 17:01:50 vroom1776 wrote:
I just used a large flathead screwdriver and rubber mallet and whacked it a few times to bend it back straight. Your supposed to replace that locknut but I didn't, I just reused it and bent the tab in a spot that wasn't bent before. Apparently this nut (32mm belt pulley) is not the one they are refering to in earlier posts. I apologize if I added to any confusion. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain gone?? Post by Max_Morley on 10/19/06 at 20:49:58 Believe the nut to be 24 mm or 27mm but not sure. I've got a set of deep impact sockets for FWD vehicle drive axle nuts and just used the one that fit. Regarding the time to repair it, I'm sure the factory provides a warranty flat rate time for the operations needed to do that, you multiply the time by the local labor rate and add whatever fees they charge to get a price. Sometimes when it comes in as a "basket case" it is strictly time and materials as the tech did not take it apart and cannot be sure if all the parts are there or fell out of the "basket" and some shops won't touch what they did not diagnose and disassemble. It is not a hard job, ask lots of questions here and I'll try to think over what I did on mine 4 months. Us retired guys some days have bad CRS disease. I used some soft mechanics wire to pull the chain up from the bottom end and so I could not lose it back down the tunnel while I fussed with the cam gear and insured it was timed correctly. Mine did not break however, just got noisy. As your broke you may find no compression due to bent valves on reassembly. You could check with a cylinder leak tool if you have the piston at TDC dead on so it won't spin and see if the valves are holding tight. Don't even need the tool if you can get an air hold that fits. Techs use air holds to hold the valve closed while they change the valve stem seals wo removing the head(s). Piston on TDC and the air pressue will hold the valve up while you remove the valve keepers/spring and replace the seal and put it back together and do the next one. Probaly could test it with a cone shaped rubber tip on an air nozzle for that matter. Trick is the piston has to be at TDC and the connecting rod straight up and down the cylinder or it will spin. We used to start our big marine diesels with an air injection system tht was timed to the power stroke. Only took one cylinder or 2 to hit TDC & fire and it was off and running. Max |
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