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Message started by Yellow96 on 10/07/06 at 04:47:42

Title: Tuning Edelbrock Quiksilver Carb
Post by Yellow96 on 10/07/06 at 04:47:42

Anyone have one of these. I like the carb but it back fires when I shut-off the bike

Title: Re: Tuning Edelbrock Quiksilver Carb
Post by lancer on 10/07/06 at 07:52:47

I am assuming that you do not have the instruction booklet that goes with the carb?
It is pretty easy to do.

1. Select the size needle that will yield the most power/speed at wide open throttle without faltering from a too rich mix ... probably about a #5. Needles available from Edelbrock for $12.95 the last time I looked. The K series needles are a little shorter for a quicker profile. The E series are longer for a bit longer profile. The regular needle is ... well, regular.

2. Then adjust the screw (or knob) on top (the needle has 30 click adjustments ... left for lean and right for rich) for the best low/midrange performance. To make the adjustments the engine must be off, the throttle turned and held in the wide open position, then you can turn the screw L or R. The setting is referenced by the number of clicks from the seated position, which is all the way to the right. Backing off by turning to the Left 15 clicks will get you to the middle position. Whenever a new needle is installed and you have no previous info to work with then start here.

3. After making the adjustment, start and test run the bike.

The Edelbrock carb, when properly adjusted, will absolutely completely eliminate all backfiring.

I may have some info sheets somehwere and if I find them I will pass it along.

Title: Re: Tuning Edelbrock Quiksilver Carb
Post by barry68v10 on 10/07/06 at 09:33:17

How much are these, and how hard are they to put in a savage?

Title: Re: Tuning Edelbrock Quiksilver Carb
Post by Yellow96 on 10/07/06 at 17:05:17

Mine came with my bike so im not sure on the cost. I think they're pretty pricey and edlebrock has never marketed them for the savage (according to Edelbrock on a return e-mail). Ithink they make these still for Harleys. Mine is more than a few years old so I'm not sure if they are the same still.

Title: Re: Tuning Edelbrock Quiksilver Carb
Post by Yellow96 on 10/07/06 at 17:08:11

Lancer,

So if the thing has been on there for a while and I dont know which needle is in it, is the backfire caused by too rich condition or the wrong needle? This is really new to me but I'm ready to get into it and get it right. I do have the manuals being sent from Edelbrock so they might help too.

Title: Re: Tuning Edelbrock Quiksilver Carb
Post by lancer on 10/07/06 at 20:25:17

Backfiring is usually the result of the low throttle range being too lean (pilot circuit on a typical carb), or sometimes due to an air leak in the exhaust system.
The needle size in the Edelbrock is like the main jet size in a typical carb. That does not affect the backfiring. It is the adjustment screw which controls the low & mid range, thus the backfiring. That is like the pilot jet and needle on a typical carb.
If with the needle you have in the carb now, the bike will run wide open with power and NO BOGGING DOWN, then you are not too rich. Maybe lean, maybe just right, but not rich. If that is the case, then you just need to adjust the needle. R for rich, L for lean. Find the best of the 30 click settings which make the most power/best acceleration and no backfires.

By the way, what muffler are you running? The Edelbrock will flow a lot of air/fuel, so you need a good flowing muffler for a good match.

Title: Re: Tuning Edelbrock Quiksilver Carb
Post by Yellow96 on 10/07/06 at 21:30:03

Thanks for stickin with me here. I think I'm catching on. I have a Jardine muffler, way loud. I'd like to quiet it down a bit, make it less harsh. Maybe a Dyna, someone else told me it bolt right up?

So let me give this a shot. My bike does run wide open fine. It starts cold with the choke open and a little bit of throttle. So, I'm gonna give it a click to the right to richen up the low end until is stops backfiring when I shut it down. Click it, test it, repeat. As it is now is rarely backfires on the road. Let me know if I've got this right and I'll get to work.

It still makes me scratch my head to think that this backfire (it's like my bike is telling the whole nieghborhood that I just took out the key) is caused by not enough fuel...I don't get that part. Also, It only does this after I ride it or it's good and warm. Just running in the driveway doesn't always do it.

Title: Re: Tuning Edelbrock Quiksilver Carb
Post by lancer on 10/08/06 at 11:32:56

Yes, you are thinking correctly.
When adjusting the needle, you can move it 3-4 clicks at a time initially so the process doesn't take a long time ... like you are bracketing it. When you get the results you want going one way, then back up 2 clicks the other way, then one click back again ... that sort of thing. That will zero it in for you on the best position. The last few clicks may take a few trial and errors, until you can hear & feel the difference between the individual clicks, say # 14, 15 or 16 for example. The changes are subtle from click to click. That is another reason to use up to 4 clicks at a time initially, it is easier to feel & hear the difference between them.

Regarding the "why lean = backfire" issue ... lean fuel/air mix does not burn as well as a proper mix, sometimes letting unburned fuel out of the cylinder and into the header pipe, pooling there as it were, which then catches fire moments later and goes "boom"! Ala BACKFIRE.

Title: Re: Tuning Edelbrock Quiksilver Carb
Post by Yellow96 on 10/13/06 at 15:13:24

Just got the tech manual from Edelbrock! Love that company. I guess I'll be tuning this weekend.

Title: Re: Tuning Edelbrock Quiksilver Carb
Post by Yellow96 on 02/07/07 at 09:15:07

Lancer,

I've tuned the carb a bit but now I think I might need a new needle. I noticed that when I open the throttle all the way the engine boggs down until I back off a little and then it picks back up. I guess that is a rich condition that is fixed by replacing the needle with a leaner one. So I have a way lean on idle with a rich on open throttle combo.

Have you put together a good needle, intake, muff combo with the QuikSilver II? In one of the earlier posts you mentioned a #5 needle but in the book they are numbered 12, 13, 14, 15 and so on.

I have the stock airbox and a dyna muffler. Not sure which needle is in it now. I read that there are two different needle types. One is straight cut and the other is curved or spoon shaped. Any Ideas?

Title: Re: Tuning Edelbrock Quiksilver Carb
Post by LANCER on 02/11/07 at 05:44:28

Yellow96 wrote:

I only have a minute before I need to leave for Beverly's grandmothers funeral. I will get some detail for you later, but for now ...
-you are rich on the high end
-you need a #5 needle (they sent you the booklet for the carbs that go on the Harley's, that is why the numbers start at 12, 13 etc)
-the tuning process is the same, you just need a smaller needle
-all of their needles are flat on one side and rounded on the other.
-some needle sets (same numbers) are shorter and some longer ... makes for a quicker progression from lean to rich with the short ones, while the longer ones take a little longer to get to the same point.

Call their tech/order line and get a # 5 needle. If you pull the needle out of the carb now you will find a much bigger one in there for sure.

**The needle size (#'s) controls the max fuel flow ... like a main jet ... while the adjusting knob on top (30 click adjustment) controls the lower range ... like a pilot jet & its' adjusting screw.
Get the right size needle first, you want it sized so that the bike runs great in the full throttle position.
After that, adjust the knob for the low throttle range (idle to 1/4 throttle).
Then your done.

Title: Re: Tuning Edelbrock Quiksilver Carb
Post by Yellow96 on 02/11/07 at 08:55:38

Lancer,

Thanks for the update, sorry about your family's loss.

I am going to take the one that's in there now and pull it out first and then place the order. The needle size thing makes sense now, and it doesn't seem too difficult to make the switch.

Ill let you know how it goes.

Thanks again

Title: Re: Tuning Edelbrock Quiksilver Carb
Post by LANCER on 02/11/07 at 18:56:21

I am assuming that the "adjusting knob" is on the top of the carb body. On older models it was considered an optional item, so if it is not on the carb then I would suggest that you get one, it makes tuning MUCH easier...even on the road with the engine running. It is a bit hard to reach with your fingers with the hot cylinder head right there, but it is possible. When turning the knob it is RIGHT FOR RICH & LEFT FOR LEAN.
The 30 click adjustment makes for a large range ... worth at least 3 pilot jet sizes on a round slide carb.

Have fun.

Title: Re: Tuning Edelbrock Quiksilver Carb
Post by Yellow96 on 02/12/07 at 17:07:57

Called Edlebrock today and talked to the tech there. He wanted to know which #5 I wanted. I took the needle out of the carb I have and it is a 6-K. He said that was a pretty aggressive grind. So he says they have a 5-K, 5-E and a 5-O. Can you tell me which one I'll have better luck with? I'd like the bike to run well and get the best milage possible with this setup. Not sure what the difference is between the E and O series.

Great news, I thought I had the stock setup on the airbox. Looks like the stock box with a K&N filter. Took that out and cleaned it. Ill oil it back up tomorrow. It was pretty dirty. Any truth to the K&N oil fouling things up in the carb??

Thanks in advance.

Title: Re: Tuning Edelbrock Quiksilver Carb
Post by LANCER on 02/12/07 at 18:39:19

The longest needle would have the most gradual fuel curve and might give a little better milage, but that is just a guess. Ask the tech about that.
The K is short with a fast fuel curve, and I think the E may be the longest one, with the O being the standard size. It has been a while and I may have the E & O mixed up. The longest needle will have the most gradual curve.

I do not think the milage will be very different between the long and short needles unless you get on it hard when accelerating. If you like to ride fast and hard then the faster response of the short needle may cause you to use a bit more fuel during the acceleration phase, but wide open is wide open, regardless of how many hundreths of a second it took to get there.
I used the K series because of the ever-so-slightly quicker response time at the throttle. I never paid much attention to the milage, I was having too much fun.

Title: Re: Tuning Edelbrock Quiksilver Carb
Post by Yellow96 on 02/21/07 at 22:00:25

Did you have to replace the intake hose on the filter side? After taking it apart and back together again I noticed that the hose doesn't reach or fit over the stock airbox outlet. Looks like the hose should be the same diameter on both ends, but the stock one is smaller on one end. The small end probably used to go on the carb but it doesn't fit the Edelbrock. Anyway it is just turned backwards and the big end fits the carb with the smaller end pretty tight but not perfectly sealed on the airbox.

Title: Re: Tuning Edelbrock Quiksilver Carb
Post by Savage_Rob on 02/22/07 at 05:36:54

Yellow96 wrote:

I think a lot of folks who change carbs use a pod/cone filter instead of the airbox. I have an Amal Mk2 carb and I bought some flexible ducting (made to replace A/C ducting in cars) from Autozone and it works perfectly.

Title: Re: Tuning Edelbrock Quiksilver Carb
Post by Yellow96 on 02/22/07 at 11:40:20

Ok, frustration is setting in now.
Here's how I installed the new needle:

Installed in the slide over spring
Installed needle adjuster pin, threaded side up
Installed the adjuster screw assembly
Turned center screw right until it stopped
Turned center screw left 14 clicks
Bumped up the idle to be sure it was over 1000 RPM

Started adjusting from there. Never could get a good start and run. It will start with the choke on but then when I start to turn the choke off, it revs up and then dies. I tried all the way lean and all the way rich with similar results. Also started at full rich and bracketted it down 3 or 4 clicks at a time, no dice. Not sure what's up here, any thoughts?

The old setup had the vaccuum line from the carb to the petc0ck disconected and plugged and the valve in PRI all of the time. Not sure if that matters or not.

Title: Re: Tuning Edelbrock Quiksilver Carb
Post by Yellow96 on 02/22/07 at 14:25:12

I put the 6-K back in today and is starts and runs fine with the exception of being too rich at wide open. I was able to tune all of the backfire out but had to go to full rich on the idle mixture to do it. I'm thinking of trying a 5-K or E, do you think it will matter?

Maybe this is a problem of filter, carb, muffler combo?
The only other thing I can think of is that this carb can't run on an O needle which is designed for street carbs. E and Ks are used on ATV carbs.