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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> oil cooler/external oil filter /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1159567925 Message started by barry68v10 on 09/29/06 at 15:12:05 |
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Title: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by barry68v10 on 09/29/06 at 15:12:05 Hey guys, not being familiar with the LS 650 oil system I've got a dilemma. I want to put on an oil cooler and external oil filter and eliminate the stock oil filter, but... I'm concerned an oil cooler will rob some oil pressure from the system and cause "top end oiling problems." Also, if I take out the stock oil filter for an external spin-on type, will that alter the oil flow within the block? Anyone have any info/advise here? Thanks |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by barry68v10 on 09/29/06 at 15:17:18 BTW, thanks lancer for the pictures of the oil system... |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by vroom1776 on 09/29/06 at 15:48:55 Check out what Ed_L did. Use search feature, or click on his profile and look for all posts by this user. |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by barry68v10 on 09/29/06 at 16:57:40 Wow! Suzuki sure did an efficient job of rendering the return line unusable! That thing is completely centered on the frame bolt with just enough room that you have to pull the engine from the frame to thread anything into that port. I guess going thru the oil filter cavity is really the only viable option. Guess that's why Ed_L did it that way. Any innovative ways to get to the oil return port in lancers oil passage post? |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by Ed_L. on 09/29/06 at 18:58:38 I took a long look at Lancers idea for an oil cooler/filter and came to the same conclusion, there is no way to access the bolt hole for the return line. Too bad cause it would be the easiest way to go. So far my mod is working fine, the cooler is getting hot within the first two or three miles so it must be getting a good flow thru it. Drilling and tapping the return line in the side cover was the simplest solution to the problem. I've convinced myself that it doesn't look too bad, course I believe in function over looks. The next step is to plug the oil line going to the oil filter cavity. This will force all the oil thru the cooler. The easiest way to do this would be to make a plug out of the head and shaft of a bolt that fits into the oil port that goes to the oil filter cavity. If the head of the bolt is ground down the edge of the oil filter will keep it in place, simple and effective, beats trying to tap the hole. I don't plan to do that since I was only interested in a cooler but it would be needed for a remote filter setup. The other option would be to do away with the oil filter cover and tap the two oil line holes, then you could run any fittings you wanted for a filter/cooler setup. Now that would look and be real different but I'm not sure how much metal is there for tapping. Got to hand it to Suzuki, they really didn't make installing aftermarket parts easy on the Savage. :-/ Let me know if you need a oil plug modified into a hose fitting, they are kind of fun to make. ;D |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by thumperclone on 09/29/06 at 19:32:04 in the service manual on the page b-4 the oil path diagram there is a "lubrication system chart"maybe laner could post that page also(i would but have no flat bed scanner)that may help you decide what path to use..the front plug is where you take pressure tests spec is with oil temp @ 140 f above 7.1psi below10.7 psi.. i have a horz. cyl. thumper the oil cooler for it tyes into the side cover at the cam shaft.. on the ls id think the optium would be feed the cooler and or external filter from the front plug(from the sump) and return up the bottom plug (flows to the stock filter) one would /should plug the short passage between the two... imo id rather just find a oil temp gauge and install the sender in the front plug....even in this upland desert bike will stay cool e nuf ala oil flows, & idle speed is between 1000 and 1200rpm...sometimes those LOONNGG stop lites in the summer gets me thinkin but a cooler wouldnt help while stopped xcept for the increase in volume.. |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by georgekathe on 09/29/06 at 21:42:29 if you want to bring service manual over to our place you can use Kathe's scanner, thumperclone - give us a call or e-mail us - same with anything you want to scan, of course, Suzuki related or whatever, Lon george |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by barry68v10 on 09/30/06 at 02:19:40 Thanks Ed_L, thought about the options you mentioned but am trying not to stray too far from a "stock-look" although like you I'm more of a function than form guy. I shouldn't have any problems finding a nipple that will thread in. I ran into a similar problem when I installed a bypass oil filter system on my dad's Duramax Diesel. I discovered hydrolic and pnuematic fittings come in lots of odd shapes and sizes and will readily flow oil just like any other fluid (including air). Since they are all made of brass, heat, corrosion, etc. aren't issues. Thanks for the offer Ed_L. Actually now that I've taken another hard look at the oil diagram, I've concluded that not blocking that short passage with an oil cooler installed, you have likely INCREASED oil flow to the top of the cylinder head. I'm committed to the mod, I've ordered a frame rail transmission cooler to cool the oil and it has a magnetic internal filter so I'm abandoning the external oil filter idea. (Plus I couldn't find a good place to mount one.) Once I get the project underway, I'll try to figure out how to post the pictures. I'm much better with mechanical things than computers. :) Thumperclone, we agree with your assessment of the "best path." Problem is, there's only about 1 inch of clearance between that bottom bolt and a large frame crossmember and bolt. So it's tucked in neatly... I suspect the bolt that's in there won't even thread all the way out without removing the engine but I'll find out for sure next weekend when I start to tear into it. :-/ |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by Ed_L. on 09/30/06 at 07:43:31 Sounds like a good plan, the threads on the bolt are the hardest to match up, if you find a supplier that has the right fittings let us all know. Good luck with it, can't wait for the pictures. |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by thumperclone on 09/30/06 at 07:47:14 my first self oil change i wrongly pulled that plug..a banjo fitting(like on the front brake line)ought to work i know its tite ..if not a banjo then a straight nipple to clear the frame then a 90 barb fitting this is a low pressure system as long as all passages are clear.. cant find the sizes of these two plugs ed has the front ones size any one know the bottom??saw in one of the cataloges an auto bypass valve , has four fittings and is temp sensitive anything less than 50 F and the cooler is bypassed..if the extenal filter is wanted w/ cooling there are cooling fins that attach to the outside of the filter.. i have a magnetic drain plug (web address listed here somewhere)it works great amazing amount of small particles at every oil change..keep us posted.. 8) |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by Savage_Rob on 09/30/06 at 14:16:37 I think it's www.magneticdrainplug.com. |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by barry68v10 on 09/30/06 at 17:42:37 UPDATE: I've located the right part...It's a JIC 6 thread aka. 9/16 UNF 18 TPI. You can find it anyplace that sells JIC brass fittings. I'm about to go get some for myself, let me know if anyone else is interested and I'll pick-up enough for all of us. :D |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by barry68v10 on 09/30/06 at 17:44:27 :o OOOPPPSSS, forgot to mention that its also known as 3/8" JIC and will fit 3/8 inch high pressure hose. Anybody confused yet? ;) |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by barry68v10 on 10/01/06 at 06:43:17 Here's the list of parts I ordered from summitracing.com to complete my project. I already had a -6 AN hose barb to female -6 AN fitting. This will also fit 11/32 or 3/8 hose: SUM-220632B Fitting, Coupler, Straight, Male -6 AN to Male -6 AN, Aluminum, Black Hard Anodized SUM-220646 Fitting, Straight, -6 AN Male to 1/8 in. NPT Male, Aluminum, Blue SUM-220711 Fitting, Hose End, 90 Degree, -6 AN Hose Barb to Female -6 AN, Aluminum, Red/Blue Ed_L apparently tapped a 1/4" NPT into the oil filter cavity, I'm planning on using a 1/8" NPT since AN fittings out flow brass NPT fittings. BTW, -6 AN = JIC 6. |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by Ed_L. on 10/01/06 at 15:50:12 Yea, I used a 1/4 inch NPT as the return line. The ID was close to the size of the port feeding the oil filter cavity and I also had a tap handy. I also drilled out the passages in the elbow past the threads. The holes were smaller where they met in the fitting but there was enought metal so I was able to open it up with a 3/8 drill. My main worry was restricting the oil flow thru the fittings. Think it is great you found the fittings for the job ;D, had no luck when I was looking. :-/ |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by barry68v10 on 10/01/06 at 16:04:43 The way I did it will be much more expensive, I spent $20 on the fittings. Could have done it cheaper with JIC one piece fittings but wasn't sure how a 90 degree would fit into the top, considering you had to create some space with your setup. For cost to benefit, your mod rocks! One reason I went with AN fittings was I may upgrade to aluminum tube all the way thru. There were a few online suppliers that would sell the JIC 6 to hose barb fittings, but I would have had to buy a boat load of them. I'm also considering installing a 7" fan hooked to an oil temp switch but I'm wondering if that's overkill... :-/ |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by barry68v10 on 10/02/06 at 03:58:28 You can find just about anything you want pretty cheap online at fittingsandadapters.com. If you prefer AN setups with stainless steel or aluminum lines I recommend summitracing.com. |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by azjay on 10/02/06 at 07:40:18 if you guys keep this up, you're going to have me doing the oil cooler mod too! ;D it was 118* in july, i'm sure the bike would have appreciated an oil cooler! |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by barry68v10 on 10/07/06 at 15:36:50 Hey, sorry all. My oil cooler didn't come in. JCWhitney says it's on backorder until 29 Oct. Guess I should have ordered everything from Summitracing. The cooler was only $2 more from them. Oh well, it'll get pics/give updates when the cooler gets here. It's been raining here all day, great day to do some wrenching...oh, well. |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by thumperclone on 10/08/06 at 16:52:43 got my cooler core mounted today went to the hdwre store no luck on fittings.. theres a hydraulic shop up the street will try to see him tommorow..had the cooler on my thumperclone(chinesse ct 70)its billet aluminum from ada racing, was just lyin round since i pulled the race engine out of the ct ..p.s. got to the return plug just 2 nuts that hold rear brake pedal assy,heat shield, engine mount..the two plugs have the same head 17 mm but the stem is smaller on the bottom one.. |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by barry68v10 on 10/09/06 at 04:49:13 Thumperclone, how'd you move the frame rail piece that the bolt runs though? The motor/tranny is bolted to the frame in 4 spots including the top of the cylinder. I thought that piece of frame was welded... |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by thumperclone on 10/09/06 at 07:08:05 barry, i didnt "move the frame rail piece..2 acorn type nuts hold the brake assy,and heat shield..brake cable and switch cable come with it, used an open end wrench to remove plug have yet to get fitting have about an inch of clearance to top of frame from bottom of eng case where plug inserts..thinkin a banjo fitting will work.. you are correct those acorn nuts are on engine mounting bolts but did not remove them... |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by barry68v10 on 10/09/06 at 15:40:16 Oh, sorry thumperclone, I misunderstood. I got that bolt out from the front without taking anything off, but the banjo fitting I had wouldn't fit into that space in order to be able to thread it in. Maybe a cut down one would work? |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by thumperclone on 10/09/06 at 16:34:32 my thoughts also barry..since stock plug is shorter and smaller than front plug...hopefully can find one that doesnt need mods.. |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by barry68v10 on 10/14/06 at 16:58:18 For those of you with an oil cooler, this should help... You can and should check your oil level WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING. While idling, just make sure the oil level is EVEN with the bottom line on the sight glass. This assumes the engine has been running long enough for all the oil passages to be filled with oil including the oil cooler and any other external oil filled accessories... |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by thumperclone on 10/15/06 at 11:06:28 barry68v10 wrote:
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by barry68v10 on 10/15/06 at 14:00:00 Not yet, I was doing some "experimenting" over the weekend, but I'm still waiting on my frame rail cooler to arrive :( I was testing to see whether I'd have to install a shut-off to keep the oil in the cooler from running back into the sump. I've decided to skip the ballvalve install to keep the connections to a minimum. I'll have my wife take pictures when the time comes and have her post them for me... :-[ |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by Ed_L. on 10/15/06 at 15:55:09 I've been clamping the "to the oil cooler" oil line while the bike is running and then shutting the bike off. It works fine cause I never blocked off the internal oil line. I'll check the oil level next time the bike is running and see if it sits at the bottom of the sight glass. Thanks for the tip ;) |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by Martin on 10/16/06 at 07:52:37 Can someone please enlighten the ignorants (that is, me) about the benefits of an oil cooler and external filter? What type of use/ operating environments justifies or requires that? Thank you, Martin |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by thumperclone on 10/16/06 at 14:39:15 martin, less heat = less friction = longer engine life,better peformance...in the hotter climes especially.. plus its another gadget for us tinkerers ::) |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by barry68v10 on 10/16/06 at 14:51:12 Martin, To piggyback on what thumperclone said, most (all?) big air cooled bikes are known sludge machines in summer riding conditions. An oil cooler will prevent/reduce the oil turning to sludge and cause it to retain its lubricating qualities for a much longer period of time... And yes, I'm a tinkerer ;D |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by klx650sm2002 on 10/17/06 at 05:04:43 Hello there tinkerer, I'm a tinkerer too. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by thumperclone on 10/17/06 at 07:17:01 tinkerers unite !!!! :D |
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Title: Re: oil cooler/external oil filter Post by thumperclone on 11/02/06 at 20:43:06 [quote author=barry68v10 link=board=RubberSideDown;num=1159567925;start=25#26 date=10/15/06 at 14:00:00]Not yet, I was doing some "experimenting" over the weekend, but I'm still waiting on my frame rail cooler to arrive :( I was testing to see whether I'd have to install a shut-off to keep the oil in the cooler from running back into the sump. I've decided to skip the ballvalve install to keep the connections to a minimum. I'll have my wife take pictures when the time comes and have her post them for me... :-[/quote] whats the latest on your oil cooler mod?.. ive got the cooler mounted (ada racing billit)and adaptors for that end..bought extra plugs and was ready to ship to ed L in fla for machining..well wife came back from two weeks of school in fla and CLEANED off the table now we cant find my bag of parts SO must start over..its winter am not in a big hurry and ed went to the keys(lucky bugger!!)for a week... |
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