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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> DIAL-A-JET /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1154733632 Message started by ONION on 08/04/06 at 16:20:32 |
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Title: DIAL-A-JET Post by ONION on 08/04/06 at 16:20:32 HAS ANY OF YOU TRIED THE DIAL-A-JET FROM THUNDER PRODUCTS. AND IF SO THEN HOW DID IT PREFORM AND WOULD YOU RECOMMEND IT? |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by steelwolf on 08/04/06 at 16:29:14 I think the general concences here is that no jet kit is neccesary. Buy individual jets as you need them. they are cheap even at the dealer. |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by Reelthing on 08/04/06 at 16:36:02 ONION wrote:
I think lancer might have messed with a dial-a-jet - the idea seems odd to me that one must create a lean condition so the dial-a-jet can fix it. ??? |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by lancer on 08/04/06 at 21:03:09 The idea behind it is to CREATE a lean condition, going down about 3 main jet sizes from what the carb required before. The Dial-a-jet is designed to supply exactly what is required based on what the engine needs a any moment but without going over. I have used it with a stock carb that was rejetted previous to the DAJ being installed and with a stock jetted Amal Mark II. Neither of those carbs had the main jet size reduced by the required 3 sizes, which limited the function of the DAJ significantly. **This is a corrected statement ... the original was in error regarding the need for lean jetting to allow the DAJ to function normally. |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by Reelthing on 08/04/06 at 21:48:24 lancer wrote:
Oh I understand the idea is to not create a lean condition in the end - what bothered me was the dial-a-jet documentation where it stated you may need to create one so the dial-a-jet can fix it here's a rather interesting read on subject, paragraph #7 is what pushes me toward the snake oil side "Dial-A-Jet is an add fuel only device. You cannot add fuel to an engine that is running rich or has an adequate fuel supply and hope to gain horsepower. You must create a lean condition so that Dial-A-Jet has a window of opportunity to function." http://www.thunderproducts.com/dial_a_jet_techpaper.htm |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by thumperclone on 08/05/06 at 08:48:42 looked at those for another bike.. one thought: if any particles get past your fuel filter they settle in the bottom of your bowl this is where dial a jet is fed from (drain screw) you have to lean out your fuel/air mix for daj to work, if the small line or atomizer jet ever got clogged then you are way too lean..dont know if you could tell if this happened while on the road...maybe a $35 fuel filter would be fine enuf to negate this concern.. daj is a cool concept maybe in a couple of years i might try it...keep us posted 8) |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by lancer on 08/05/06 at 10:05:13 I have spent a good bit of time on the phone with the guy who makes the Dial-a-jet and I think you are misunderstanding what he is trying to say in that paragraph. The lean condition referred to is that small area of jetting that lies between a jet that would be too rich and the next size down that will work properly under most conditions. If there were a jet size that was half way between the other 2 jets then that would be the better jet to use. But since there is no "half-step" jet available, that slight lean condition that may be created at times while riding is filled by the dial-a-jet. He is NOT SUGGESTING that a SIGNIFICANT LEAN CONDITION BE CREATED... not in the least If you look at a printout from a dyno run where you just jetted/tuned your bike, you will find that there are peaks and valleys where there may be a some slight rich or lean areas along the rpm range. To remove all of the lean areas you need to go to the next larger jet sizes, which will result in NO LEAN AREAS but will leave some areas right on and others a little rich. He is saying to go to the jet sizes just on the lower side of the curve, which give some areas just right and some slightly lean ... and it is those slightly lean areas that are filled in by the dial-a-jet. This is a long way from running a bike so lean that engine damage would result if the dial-a-jet stopped working. |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by Reelthing on 08/05/06 at 10:34:17 All I can go by is their documentation - they ARE suggesting 3 or 4 jet sizes to lean side - that's pretty dang lean! You must create a slightly lean condition so the Dial-A-Jet has a working range. This is typically about three or four jet sizes below a properly jetted machine |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by lancer on 08/05/06 at 20:06:22 Reelthing wrote:
You are absolutely correct. I went back and read through the material again and he does suggest a 3-4 jet size toward the lean for maximum function, and that is described as "slightly lean". I did not remember seeing that before nor him saying anyting about it during our discussions. Now I need to talk to him again about this because it is, as you said, a big step into the lean territory while it is called "slightly lean"... that seems more than slightly lean to me.. Thank you for your persistance and helping me to see the error of my ways in this. Truth must prevail if we are to advance. |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by thumperclone on 08/06/06 at 03:41:31 in my youth hanging out in rod builders garages i remember one taking a ss screen and installing it tween the carb and manifold.. theory is to atomize the fuel into smaller particles..finer mist(like injectors and picture of dial a jet) leaves less lean spots in the air fuel mix = more efficient burn...found two products that use this theory..one is a finned "turbulator"that creats a vortex the other is a cupped screen that "atomizes".... pg 502 jp cycles hd catalog |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/06/06 at 06:33:59 Hey Lancer Would you know how much a dial-a-jet kit is for a Keihin FCR41. Also do you know anything about Factory Pro HDJ emulsion tubes again for FCR41 Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by lancer on 08/06/06 at 09:15:16 I tried the turbulator before and did not notice any difference with that one. I have seen the cupped screen thing but have not tried it. I think the single carb Dial-a-jet is about $69. You would need to drill and tap the bowl cap for the fuel source. |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/08/06 at 03:35:52 Hey Lancer,again What is the fixing system for the jet part of the Dial-a-Jet, Is it more drilling and tapping ? Thanks. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by lancer on 08/08/06 at 05:51:58 The dial-a-jet (DAJ) is designed for the Mikuni VM carb but can be adapted to any. There is a "deep well" bowl plug they have for use with the dial-a-jet on the VM, and you drill/tap that in order to install a brass fuel port to supply the jet piece. When I installed the DAJ on the stock carb, since the bowl plug is a different size than the DAJ/VM item, I simply drilled into the bowl itself. I selected a spot that was on the bottom/side (on the curve slightly) and would not interfer with the floats. I did not have the exact tap so I drilled the hole to be just slightly smaller than the threads on the brass, then screwed the piece into the bowl. It was a VERY SNUG fit, the brass threads created threads in the aluminum bowl and it did not leak a drop. Even when removed and reinstalled it did not leak. |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by Mr 650 on 08/09/06 at 23:54:13 I like the idea of this thing. "Denco" Dennis Dean ran them on his wicked Kawasakis. The Savage is about 5-10 jet sizes lean (145 stock up to 152,155,157 w/ open pipe) depending on the exhaust setup. Greg talked me out of it before I started messing w/ my stock bike. His point is it was just as easy to drop the bowl and rejet. (Of course anyone that disassembles their engine each winter might :)) Added complexity = reduced reliability I was attracted to the tunablity feature which would be good for finding the right jet size. One might install one and adjust it for awhile and get a good idea of what is required for the the proper jet size and try that. If It ran better w/o the DAJ them just swap it for a stock bowl and sell the complete DAJ to the next guy or keep it if your carb needed '1/2' jet to be right on. |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by thumperclone on 08/10/06 at 21:02:04 any peformance difference?? lancer wrote:
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by voldigicam on 08/19/09 at 07:09:15 http://www.jpcycles.com/Search/ProductDetail?sku=401-032&N=0&Ne=0&Ntk=All&Ntt=turbulator&Ns=&results=10&No= Wonder whether these will fit stock carb . . . . Should actually tubulate exhaust, I suppose, although I've not seen it done. Might help just a little, which is all we can hope for! |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by PTRider on 08/19/09 at 07:21:48 7D617C64796C7B6A6566676C090 wrote:
The only way any of these gizmos makes a car or bike go faster is due to your lighter wallet. None of them work at all. More power and better fuel mileage sell cars and bikes. If anything like this worked, the manufacturers could make them for a few pennies and put them in every vehicle. |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by verslagen1 on 08/19/09 at 07:42:08 16110E5D0 wrote:
Sort of like making a cam chain tensioner that won't fall apart. For a few pennies they could have an engine that needs servicing instead of a pile of scrap. |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by voldigicam on 08/19/09 at 07:42:49 That's not necessarily a convincing argument. Much effort goes into making the fuel charge uniform. Modern fuel injected systems seem to do a pretty good job of this. The induction systems are also pretty long and highly engineered. In contrast, the CV type of mixing looks to be quite dirty. Post-carb intake lengths are rather short and quite simple. Different situations. |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by odvelasc on 08/19/09 at 20:26:54 get the vm roundslide carb. Get yourself the UFO and the dial a jet. The UFO gives great low end grab. Its a different bike when you do these mods. Believe me. You will definitely notice the daj most on the highways. If you are stock, the bike is choking at high speeds. You can open it up a bit with a sporty muffler and rejetting. The daj takes away from having to pull you carb to rejet in colder temps. Just do the full mod by going VM rounslide carb, UFO and daj. I had this on the suzi before I sold, and seviersavage has it right now. Its the best mod for the bike. You will need to have a custom cable made for the new carb. Lancer sells them. I had one made at a shop outside of town. |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by seviersavage on 08/20/09 at 13:25:03 The DAJ was designed to give you the perfect air fuel mixture. Not too lean and not too fat. Peak horsepower is found in that narrow band of perfect, which conventional jetting rarely gets. Because temperature and humidity and elevation changes constantly your jetting needs will too. Most people will be satisfied with just good enough,but if you want peak performance you might consider adding the DAJ to your carb. For a straight out normal carb it's safest to jet a little fat so as to avoid excessive heat. But if you are running the DAJ and your just a little lean, the little induction system will administer an immulsified fuel charge to give you the perfect mixture, where peak horsepower resides. It is an add only device and will not make it too rich. Harmonics inside the engine along with pressure drop and air flow excite the mixing valve to draw fuel up from the carb and it's introduced into the carbs throat filling in the gaps in the atomized charge. This is just whats there on their website for anyone to read. I have one on my vm carb along with their UFO. It's important to note that the DAJ will supply up to 10% of your fuel needs so puposfully jetting way lean is asking too much of it. I think maybe 2 jet sizes down from ideal would give you a resonable window for it to work to your advantage. It does work, but you have to stay within the perameters of the designers. Seviersavage |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by LANCER on 08/20/09 at 17:57:45 The original inventor of the DAJ was a guy who held a number of records on the salt flats. He developed the DAJ to maximize power for his world record runs. It is my understanding that Lonn, who owns Thunder Products, bought the rights to the DAJ from the original creator. I may not have that exactly right but according to my feeble memory that is the way it has come down. Ah, here it is: The Dial-A-Jet system was invented by Lonn Peterson became interested in using Dial-A-Jets on snowmobiles in the winter of 1989/90. Lonn recognized a great need for this product in the snowmobile industry. Large altitude and temperature changes had to be dealt with, not to mention engine modifications requiring attention to the fuel system. They worked so well and the feed back was so positive that he decided to buy the company. Lonn and his wife, Ann, now own Dial-A-Jet which is part of Thunder Products, Inc.Dennis Dean, Ph.D. (Doctorate in acoustics). Mr. Dean held over 120 world motorcycle drag racing records and several Bonneville records. The Dial-A-Jet concept was used on all of these machines. He knew that he needed a different fuel curve for the launch area, middle of the track and the end of the track. He also had to deal with different altitudes, temperatures, and air densities. Dial-A-Jet proved to take care of these problems as well as providing that fine tuning edge that meant the difference between winning and losing at this highly competitive level. ..... Lonn Peterson became interested in using Dial-A-Jets on snowmobiles in the winter of 1989/90. Lonn recognized a great need for this product in the snowmobile industry. Large altitude and temperature changes had to be dealt with, not to mention engine modifications requiring attention to the fuel system. They worked so well and the feed back was so positive that he decided to buy the company. Lonn and his wife, Ann, now own Dial-A-Jet which is part of Thunder Products, Inc. |
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Title: Re: DIAL-A-JET Post by bill67 on 08/20/09 at 18:35:46 7960636B6668666C6E620F0 wrote:
I had those in my 1980 500 Moto Guzzi,They were called Swral Ups Back then.My brother and I always tried high gear roll on when we changed some thing.He had a full dress harley at the time,We were pretty even from 40-65 mph then he would start pulling a head,With the swral up I would pull him were we were even before.He ordered one for his Harley,mean time we try it to a higher speed and he was pulling me more than he did when I didn't have it in.So is what your are doing is making the intake smaller which make you richer and more torque.His came and he put it in and we were back to even again he gained torque too.His spark plugs were light on one side and dark on the other that did change that they burnt more uniform. So instead of buying one of those just put a sleeve in your intake and you have the same thing |
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