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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Newbie question--mufflers and rejetting
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Message started by sstankus on 08/03/06 at 11:10:14

Title: Newbie question--mufflers and rejetting
Post by sstankus on 08/03/06 at 11:10:14

I want to personalize my relatively new Savage a little. Thinking about a new muffler and bars to start. I've read a lot here about needing to re-jet the carb when changing the muffler. My questions is How do I know what the right air/fuel mix is and how does this correlate to the jet sizes? :-/ Is there a chart I can reference? Do I need to get a Clymer (spelling??) manual to get this info?

Thanks in advance for y'all's help.

Title: Re: Newbie question--mufflers and rejetting
Post by vroom1776 on 08/03/06 at 12:25:02

Won't be in the clymer. Jetting is an art, not a science. To get it perfect, dyno it, but that's $$$.

Jetting is an art, not a science. Go to your local bike shop and buy some "Big Round Mikuni Mains," say 140 to 160 sizes. That is over kill, but, it's an art. Buy some #3 or 4 SAE sized washers from the hardware stores. Also, yank out the pilot jet before you go to the bike shop. buy at least 2, bigger ones than are in there now. Now go to the tech sect and read and re-read all you can on carbs and jetting, and go to it! Still got questions? Post again! We're all friendly! But learn how to use the search feature! A lot of us get tired of answering the same ?s over and over agin. (not to be rude here... just sayin')

Make sure you read the one on the white spacer / midrange and backfires.

As for the 160, you prolly' won't need it, but a lot of folks are running 155s w/ aftermarket exhaust and modified air intake.

In general: if you increase airflow, you must rejet up, period. end of story. There are two basic cheap, easy ways to increase airflow: 1) open up the intake airflow (many, many ways on this bike) 2) open up the exhaust. After that, you get into stuff like new carbs, cams, porting the heads, valve clearances...

A lot of folks do 1 at a time to trouble shoot. I like doing both at once, get the jetting right ONCE, and be done w/ it.

Dude, read, read, read!

Good luck and have fun!

V

Title: Re: Newbie question--mufflers and rejetting
Post by vroom1776 on 08/03/06 at 12:42:03

oh yeah, don't buy a "dyno jet" jet kit. they are a rip off. The only good thing is you get a needle w/ an adjustable clip, but that's what those #3 or 4 washers are for.

Title: Re: Newbie question--mufflers and rejetting
Post by Savage_Rob on 08/03/06 at 12:51:59

Although the DJ kit has a coupon for a free dyno run if that's what you really want to do and know who will accept the coupon.

Title: Re: Newbie question--mufflers and rejetting
Post by sstankus on 08/04/06 at 13:34:59

Thanks, y'all. I appreciate your patience. I'm anxious to learn...maybe a little too anxious. I'll search the tech section. I did read about the white spacer, but didn't fully understand. I'm a little nervous to dig in 'cuz this has become my daily driver. I can't afford too much down-time and certainly don't want to hurt the engine by doing it wrong.

Anyway, thanks again.

Title: Re: Newbie question--mufflers and rejetting
Post by vroom1776 on 08/04/06 at 14:24:46

You won't hurt the engine unless you jet it way lean (to much air comapred to fuel, i.e. too small a jet size) and run it hard, usually on the highway. Since you will be richening it anyway, this is not a concern.

The only other thing to really worry about is stripping screws. That can be a pain in the neck. There are relatively simple ways to ge them out, though. In general, the screws that hold on the float bowl should be replaced w/ stainless steel allen bolts anyway as the brass ones are soft and tend to strip.

Specific to screwing up the carb, DO NOT:

1) loose parts
2) pinch/tear the rubber flange that goes on top
3) bend the needle
4) screw around with the float level, tabs... unless you are sure this is causing a problem.
5) stretch the big spring too much
6) overtighten the jets when installing them

Also, there is a washer that goes on the main jet that people occasionaly forget to put back in.

Also #2, magnetic tipped screw drivers help a lot when reinstalling the needle plate.

not counting taking out the carb, it should only take about an hour, maybe 1.5 hours for your first time rejetting the carb... if you are lucky (i.e. don't loose stuff...)

When you install the new muffler, try to eliminate exhaust leaks. I have one, but don't really care. When you reinstall the carb, make sure the seal is good, you don't want intake leaks either.

Title: Re: Newbie question--mufflers and rejetting
Post by sstankus on 08/08/06 at 08:29:11

Okay, one more question. I've read about drilling holes in the baffle, which will make the bike louder without causing me to rejet the carb. I take the muffler off and drill the holes from the "inside". Right? ??? I've also read to drill 2 or 3 1" holes.

I got installed straight bars and new grips this weekend. WOW! What a different look and ride. Much more comfortable. I'll have to get pix.

Title: Re: Newbie question--mufflers and rejetting
Post by vroom1776 on 08/08/06 at 08:54:48

No, you drilll them from the outside. Torque, whose savage does not rest in peace, but pieces in Lancer's garage, punched everything out of his baffle. You may want to look up his old posts. Anyway, basically start drilling holes in the back of the pipe until it sounds the way you like it. This link (http://www.650ccnd.com/ht.htm) has instructions for doing this to stock V* 650 pipes. The 2nd - 4th links are all different ways to go about it.

I do recomend at least re-jeting the midrange, but the whole range is lean from the factory, unless you live at altitude, then it's probably close to right.

Definitly post pics!

V

Title: Re: Newbie question--mufflers and rejetting
Post by 911radioman on 08/08/06 at 08:58:33

vroom1776 wrote:

The only other thing to really worry about is stripping screws. That can be a pain in the neck. There are relatively simple ways to ge them out, though. In general, the screws that hold on the float bowl should be replaced w/ stainless steel allen bolts anyway as the brass ones are soft and tend to strip.

I'll take that one step farther than just replacing carb screws. IMHO, any time you have a bolt/screw out of the bike, replace it. This is what I've been doing the last couple of days.

My preferred method of accessing the bottom of the carb for jetting has quickly become pulling the battery box. It is quick, and cuts tank removal completely out of the equation for this. The 4 bolts that hold the battery box on are super soft and after about 3 removal/installs, the bolts were shot. I replaced them this morning, along with my rear seat bolts and the screws that hold the toolkit bracket to the battery box.

Title: Re: Newbie question--mufflers and rejetting
Post by vroom1776 on 08/08/06 at 09:43:31

Yep, started replacing them upon removal too, when possible!

Title: Re: Newbie question--mufflers and rejetting
Post by luken on 08/08/06 at 10:13:21

I pulled the carb apart this weekend too. It was my first time, I had it open for 2 days (just to get a good feel of it)

I got it out by pulling out the batterybox and airbox, it wasnt hard at all. Once those were out unplugged cables, drained the carb and it was out.

When I was trying to get the carb off I started by trying to unscew the 2 screwes holding the throttle spring on. That was stupid, the screws felt like they were made of lead. As soon as they started stripping I stopped and slapped myself for not just taking the cable out.

The top screws were a b*t$ to get out, only 1 came out clean, the other one barely came out and the other 2 required a trip to home depot for a 7/56 or something bit to drill them out. I replaced them with steel hex screws that fit perfect.

Getting the throttle cable seated right was tough, I had to wiggle it in and it was still givig some resistance just above idel that wd-40 wouldt take out. I just adjusted the idel for a temp fix.

Anyway, amen to the screws are crap and that removing the battery is a quick way to the carb.

Title: Re: Newbie question--mufflers and rejetting
Post by sstankus on 08/08/06 at 10:32:33

Okay, thanks. That was a quick response. From what Ive read, my tuning is right-on. The initial curve from the headder is gold and I've made no changes. Bought the bike with only 400 miles on it, so I doubt the previous owner made any changes. Go figure...

Here's a picture. The bars were given to me and the grips cost next to nutt'n. The local Har--- stealership wanted like $75, but a local discount shop had these for a whole lot less. Gotta' do something with the brake line though. Yeesh!

http://w1.bikepics.com/pics/2006%5C08%5C08%5Cbikepics-651301-800.jpg

Title: Re: Newbie question--mufflers and rejetting
Post by sstankus on 08/08/06 at 10:36:24

Cool. Thanks for the update on the new way to get to the carb. That way, though, sounds tempting to make a change to the intake too. I've seen some neat changes there as well. One step at a time, though. This is my dail driver and, while I do love to tinker, I don't want to get to a point where I HAVE to tinker to get her to run. (If I do that, I might as well own a Harley. ;D )

Title: Re: Newbie question--mufflers and rejetting
Post by lancer on 08/08/06 at 14:01:43

God loves a tinker...all of us.