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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1142268977 Message started by 911radioman on 03/13/06 at 08:56:17 |
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Title: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by 911radioman on 03/13/06 at 08:56:17 I noticed today that my header pipe and even my MAC muffler is turning a honey/gold color. The MAC muffler is turning back near the heat shield that covers the muffler/header pipe connection, while the header pipe is golden color at least all the way down to the second bend. Here are my mods, so you can tell me if anything else needs to be done -- I'm a little puzzled as to why the muffler itself would change to this color. 152.5 main jet 1/2 white spacer idle mix screw out 1 1/2 turns K&N drop in filter Desnorkel MAC slip-on muffler |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by klx650sm2002 on 03/13/06 at 09:56:23 Silencers change color where there is an internal restriction. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by 911radioman on 03/13/06 at 09:58:45 The pipe is wide open all the way through. It's just that the whole exhaust system is trying to turn golden color. Doesn't seem normal to me. |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by vroom1776 on 03/13/06 at 10:24:41 Doesn't a gold discoloration on the header pipe usuaully mean it is lean? Blue means rich, I believe. Maybe your pilot is too small... |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by 911radioman on 03/13/06 at 10:36:39 I think its the other way around. Blue = lean, gold, from what I am reading, seems to be acceptable. What I can't figure is why it is happening the entire length of the pipe, even onto the muffler... I don't see how I could be lean, going from a stock 145 main jet to a 152.5 main jet. The engine responds well to the idle mixture screw, so I know my pilot jet is OK as is. |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by Savage_Rob on 03/13/06 at 11:09:31 Actually both indicate enough heat to discolor the chrome. Gold/honey will happen first and then continue into blue with enough additional heat. Some chrome is thinner than other chrome which will allow it to turn more easilt too. In many instances, the excess heat is due to a lean condition. I toyed with using a header wrap on mine at one point which helps to keep the heat inside the exhaust system. In doing so, it blued my header greatly and began to blue my MAC where it had no discoloration before at all. I've since removed the wrap and painted my header and muffler black. |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by Dynobob on 03/13/06 at 11:16:39 All the Suzuki pipes will color. They are basically single wall tubing. Expensive exhaust systems use double wall tubing - they still color...you just can't see it. Gold is the sign of a good burn. Blue means you're lean and running too hot. If you have doubts about your jetting, read your plug after killing the engine at WOT (main jet) and midrange cruise (needle and needle jet). |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by 911radioman on 03/13/06 at 12:56:09 I went back out and looked it over closer. The gold color reaches just past the first bend, so it doesn't extend as far down the header pipe as I originally thought. The gold color on the muffler is right at the heat shield, and I'm wondering if it developed because I didn't wipe the pipe down after installing/handling it before I started it the first time after installation? The reason I wonder about that, is because it is just in one small spot on the muffler itself. I think I can take some Blue Job I have and take care of that pretty easily. So, all in all, I guess my discoloration isn't as bad as I originally thought, so all may be well after all. Thanks for all the input though. On a sidenote... I went out for about an hours ride this morning in between thunderstorms, and I found a nice, straight, dry stretch of highway and opened it wide open. First time I had done it since doing all the mods. The Savage hit 98 mph in no time flat!!! :D I could have probably coaxed a bit more out of it, but I was running out of straightaway and I found out what I really needed to know -- that I had plenty of reserve for passing if need be. Plus, I had a bit of throttle left over, so I'd say 100 will be easily attainable (not that I need it)! Probably the only other thing I intend to do soon is switch over to 20W-50 instead of the recommended 10W-40 oil. I use Castrol GTX and it seems to do very well. |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by Savage_Rob on 03/13/06 at 13:25:06 Skin oils can discolor it too. Try some Blue-Job (http://www.blue-job.com/) on the muffler. It's takes a bit of elbow grease but it works. |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by lancer on 03/13/06 at 13:58:26 The stock header pipe is a double wall pipe, though not a very good one. The inner pipe has only a 1.3" ID, which is very restrictive. Anything that can be done which keeps the heat in the exhaust longer will aid in the exhaust scavenging effect...as in the use of header wrap, or ceramic coating, etc. On the fuel octane issue, unless I misunderstand, the difference between the various octane levels is just the amount of anti-detonation additives which are placed in the fuel. Why would that cause more carbon deposits with a higher octane fuel? |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by 911radioman on 03/13/06 at 14:22:11 Well, I just went over the muffler with some Blue-Away. Seems to have taken that off. Maybe it was from skin oils, as it was just in that one particular spot. So, I'll keep a watch on it and see how it goes. I guessed I missed the fuel octane discussion somewhere! I have always heard and been advised to use regular 87 octane, as it really doesn't benefit to use the mid/premium grades. However, I kinda got a feeling that this sparks just as passionate a debate as dino vs. synthetic oils! :D |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by Curz on 03/13/06 at 15:12:28 vroom1776 wrote:
Both gold and blue mean to lean. The difference is by how much. When the pipe runs a little hotter (slightly lean) it turns gold. If it runs excessively hot (extra lean) it starts to turn blue. |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by orrin7 on 03/13/06 at 16:12:22 it would be kind of hard to convince me that you can accuratly tune an engine by the color of the pipe. there are too many variables , chrome, oils, pipe steel, etc. also reading a plug is almost an exact science to do it correctly. there again you have too many variables. throttle position , rpm , ignition, and previous use on plug such as idleing and choke at crank up. the only true way to tell is a dyno with an o2 sensor. i read plugs and tune for a living and even in the racing industry we are getting away from "plug checks" as they are called. and to be honest there are very few people even in my industry that know how to read a plug correctly. basically if you have no access to a dyno then all you have is to go off recommendations from this site , which i must say are very good and informative. 99% of everything i read here helps me a great deal and when ever i ask a question i get great advice. bottom line almost all pipes blue and all mufflers turn a color where fuel "puddles" whether stainless,chrome , or enkonel. i hope i did not offend anyone and i hope you enjoy your bike as i am |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by 911radioman on 03/13/06 at 16:18:04 Interesting observation. Where does one have to go to do a dyno test? I'd love to find one around here and put the Savage on it just to see how close I actually am adjustment-wise. |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by clueless on 03/13/06 at 17:18:23 orrin, Love hearing different point of views. I am mechanical, but not a mechanic. I am a technical person, so I love the ins and outs of tuning. Not a science, but more an art form. As is much of the technical world. Welcome!!! Jim |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by Les on 03/13/06 at 17:49:44 :) While i agree the engine shows blue close to the head is lean you really need to always add fuel and go to the safe(Rich) side. Then when it hates the fuel go back a step. Engine burn temp is also a result of load and have seen times when more fuel will raise exhaust temp the engine was lean and exhaust temp was hi to start with and again added fuel till the exhaust temp settled . Does this seem right remember the engine needs 4 things to run all can affect the exhaust temp. Les |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by orrin7 on 03/13/06 at 18:43:43 les has made a very good point about , load and also being safe by going rich and then backing up. also one thing that will plauge the single cylinder engine is by it being a single cylinder it does not have quite the efficient secondary exhaust scavenge such as a multiple cylinder engine. so the exhaust gasses actually sort of build up and combust. creating heat in the pipe which is why you will have bluing in spots of restriction. probully one of the best things we could do to these bikes is put a two inch header pipe and then neck it down to 1 3/4 just before the muffler to create a sort of choke spot. |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by klx650sm2002 on 03/14/06 at 04:57:58 I'd go for a min. of 1.5" i.d. all the way to the silencer and use a silencer big enough that allows a step up in diameter from the header size. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by Savage_Rob on 03/14/06 at 06:41:04 And what Les was saying is what I've understood to be the basic rule of thumb for tuning a carb. For each circuit, give her juice til she starts to gag and then back off a bit. |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by Reelthing on 03/14/06 at 07:14:30 I'd love to have access to a dyno in the areas where my toys live but just do not. So the butt dyno and plug reads has to stay on my list of things to get an engine in the ballpark. When I get down to doing it proper it takes at least a half dozen new plugs to do it, and a tach - so the champion's at a $1.15 from the auto store are what I use and toss um. It's really not that hard of a read to get in the ballpark on this engine compared to a 2stroke where your working oil in the mixture as well. |
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Title: Re: Need some ideas/input, a little puzzled... Post by Reelthing on 03/14/06 at 07:16:59 klx650sm2002 wrote:
I've got a single wall with a megaphone, just waiting on a head to port :) |
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