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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> The Death of a Savage /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1141206268 Message started by tankerblaze on 03/01/06 at 01:44:28 |
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Title: The Death of a Savage Post by tankerblaze on 03/01/06 at 01:44:28 Hey savages, I'm starting to REALLY feel Torque's pain, unfortunately my savage has suffered much the same fate as his. At least I hadn't installed most of the aftermarket parts I've received in the last 2 months including my seeger controls and new Dunlop tires My 2001 Savage, 11,656.8 miles threw the rod right through the crankcase on Monday. I was riding up a back-route near Highway 9 in the Santa Cruz mountains, doing about 45 in 4th gear when it blew. Fortunately for me, when it went, the bike went one way I went another into some bushes. Sadly, not much of the bike survived as it plummeted 60 feet into a rivine and landed on rocks below. I'm sad to say that I probably won't be buying another, at least not for myself in the near future. Needless to say I'm sad to lose it, hopefully I'll be able to talk my wife into getting one (although it's going to be a tough arguement now, lol). Bright side though! My insuance company paid out $2750 for the bike and equipment, luckily for me I only paid $1650 for the bike! I've already purchased a 2002 Ducati Monster 620ie at auction with some very minor damage, hopefully this flat black beauty won't suffer the same fate as my Savage. -tanker out... |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by babbalou on 03/01/06 at 02:28:23 Sorry to hear about your Savage & glad you're OK. I wonder if a few bad connecting rods left the factory. Heard good things about the Ducati, you're gonna like it. |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by PerrydaSavage on 03/01/06 at 03:51:54 :o Man Sorry to hear about your '01 Savage and glad you are OK!! Wow, that's 2 catastrophic LS engine failures on this Forum in as many weeks ... I've been comin' here for almost 3 years and I'd never head of that kinda total failure before!! This has given me the heebie jeebies ... seems as if a connecting rod giving out is also potentially dangerous (fatal??) to the Rider as well as the Bike?? What gives? Bad Manufacture, Rider neglect and/or abuse ... or an inherently flawed design ... got me thinkin' that keeping my LS past 10,000kms mightn't be such a good idea? Comments? |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by Reelthing on 03/01/06 at 04:09:58 Glad your aok, sounds like it went out with a bit of drama for sure |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by Hammy211 on 03/01/06 at 04:10:50 Yikes! But your OK and even got a good deal out of it. You must feel pretty lucky. It doesn't really bother me to think my bike may break down at some point, but the manner in which these failures are occuring is rather disturbing. I recall torque saying it basically locked up his rear. Is that what yours did? Have you broke into your engine at all? You recently bought your bike. How many miles did it have on it then? |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by torque on 03/01/06 at 06:13:38 yeah i'm glad your alright too,it's preatty weird how it happens,your out enjoying life, crusing the country side, then BAMM!! the savage is trying to kill ya for some reason or another ::) i didnt have full coverage insurance on mine :'( anyway enjoy the ducati,i went looking at bikes the other day and sat on a 749 awsome bike.i think i'm going to get a 06 650 ninja. like i said i'm glad u didnt go down the rivine ;) |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by Savage_Rob on 03/01/06 at 06:28:59 That is way freaky to have that happen to two in such a short period of time. I wonder if the causes are related or not. Anyway, I'm glad you're both okay. |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by Dynobob on 03/01/06 at 07:02:51 Savage_Rob wrote:
Yeah I'm wondering about the causes myself. I wonder if either has ever had a failed petc0ck and gas in the crankcase. I wonder if alot of high rpm operation is a contributing factor. Maybe the rod is the weak link or maybe Suzuki manufactured a bad batch. Dunno. I'm glad neither of you were hurt. tankerblaze - the description of your bike's demise sounds like a scene out of an action movie :o |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by torque on 03/01/06 at 07:08:21 no gas in the crankcase here and no over reving either. |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by vroom1776 on 03/01/06 at 07:21:30 Holy sh*t! Glad your okay. Yours was a 2001. Torque, what year was yours? '96? |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by torque on 03/01/06 at 07:27:54 mine was '98 with 18,000 miles |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by vroom1776 on 03/01/06 at 09:09:21 So unless they are using connecting rods from a batch they made in 1998 or before, we can eliminate teh idea of a bad batch... |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by Bugscraper on 03/01/06 at 13:50:14 Well, when Torque said the con rod was made of cheap pot metal, that started a turning point in my thinking. I've wanted 1 of these bikes since they 1st came out in '86. I have to pay cash (bad credit history); and, this summer looks good for finally making the purchase. But now, I'm having serious doubts. Maybe a V* instead; but, some of those have had driveshaft failures (as have Volusias). Haven't heard of any problems at all with the Aero 750. And, there's always the Sporty; but here, you pay an extra $2500 in dealer fees. Heck, I could get a used Savage for that. People put down the old Limeys as undependable; but, I never had 1 problem with my BSA, Triumph, or Norton (except the Lucas electrics in the Bonnie). I can get a cherry 750 Norton for $2200; maybe I'll do that. This whole scenario is very disappointing, with the "supposed" Japanese dependability. |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by cigaro on 03/01/06 at 14:25:26 First of all to TankerBlaze, thank heavens you're alright. That was an unexpected and potentially fatal mechanical failure. However, how many of these type failures have occurred among the thousand plus members and viewers? Statistically, I'd bet it's very, very small. If this was a new motorcycle, there probably would be immediate cause for alarm. However, it's one of the tried and true bikes on the market. If this was a recurring deficiency it would have probably become apparent 10 years ago. Still, it's good to know about and be aware of. |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by vroom1776 on 03/01/06 at 15:46:03 I've heard of 1 drive shaft failure on a V* ... and that guy was doing wheelies. I've got 26 k miles on my V* 1100 with 0 problems |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by Max_Morley on 03/01/06 at 16:21:56 In the early days of Bert's forum in germany, we had one rider who had over 80K when the cam chin tensioner went. I do not remember anyone on that forum with a lower end problem. About the only problem was ruining the cylinder head due to running out of oil because of the plug leak. Even those were fixed with another head, cam follers etc and run for years. |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by Bugscraper on 03/01/06 at 17:31:22 vroom1776 wrote:
Hang out on CC&D (Classic, Custom & Dragstar -- Delphi); there have been a number. 1 guy had 3 failures on the same bike. BTW, these are 650's; I haven't heard of any with the 1100. Probly better design. |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by Bugscraper on 03/01/06 at 17:39:58 cigaro wrote:
That's exactly the kind of failure I wouldn't want to happen. Would you like to be the 3rd? That pot metal rod -- STUPID cheapo feature. Some of the V-twins LOOK cheap externally (plastic chrome, etc.); but, I wonder if any of them use pot metal rods? |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by WD on 03/01/06 at 21:41:57 Make it 3, not mine fortunately. Had one show up on a trailer today with the rod hanging out of the bottom end. Send him to the metal shredder down the road, I MIGHT have been able to salvage the headlight bulb... Even the CDI box was smashed. What part of "if it's trash in your yard, it's trash in my yard" don't people understand anyways? Big end of the rod flat sheared off, the final downstroke punched it out through the base gasket. The drive belt was wrapped around the rear wheel. Bike was a 2000 model with right at 13K miles on the clock. Owner said he ran nothing but Suzuki 10W40 synthetic in it. I keep saying, these bikes need Castrol GTX 20W50 or a similar dino juice in them... -WD |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by Dynobob on 03/02/06 at 06:37:53 I think the Savage is a very durable bike. Trust me, the rod is not made from "pot metal". WD, I tend to agree with you about oil. I'm switching from 10W40 Honda dino to Yamalube 20W40 dino this spring. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Savage. If you do choose to buy a Honda Aero, I can tell you from experience (I also ride an ACE 750) that they are extremely durable bikes. Water cooling and Honda build quality - what's not to like ? If you get a model with the single pin crank, they sound awesome too. |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by vroom1776 on 03/02/06 at 06:59:51 Bugscraper wrote:
yeah, I was talkin' about the 1100s... |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by Savage_Rob on 03/02/06 at 07:27:33 I'm running a 15W50 synthetic but will likely switch back to a 15W50 dinojuice when I use up the stock I have. I got a case a a great price so it's taking a few changes. |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by PerrydaSavage on 03/02/06 at 07:55:02 Guys, as a Savage owner, I'm more than a little concerned about the type of connecting rod failure described on this Board over the past few weeks ... seems like this kind of sudden malfunction does not only toast the Bike, but has the potential to cause the Rider to loose control resulting in injury or death ... This is serious crap and am very surprised that Suzuki hasn't adressed it in one way or another with a recall and/or re-design of the engine itself. Seems like by not adressing this type of failure of the LS' engine (is Suzuki even aware of the problem?), Suzuki could be leaving itself open to lawsuit? |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by torque on 03/02/06 at 08:51:20 yeah its not like these are really old bikes either ??? |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by Savage_Rob on 03/02/06 at 09:13:49 I'd bet Suzuki would disavow any responsibility if the bike had been functionally modified though. Still, I'm curious as to whether they've heard of this and if so, what they've determined to be the likely/primary cause in the majority of cases. |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by PerrydaSavage on 03/02/06 at 10:03:11 Is there any way to query Suzuki about this? I bought my Savage as a long-term Bike ... This is causing me to doubt my choice and think about if it'd be wise to keep it at all ... |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by mmosel on 03/02/06 at 14:38:44 I was thinking the same thing. Suzuki should be notified. I wonder if an upgrade could be made? If nothing else, maybe a replacement at 10k? |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by Reelthing on 03/02/06 at 17:26:54 you'd be hard pressed to find any make or model that hasn't thrown a rod at some point, if it is believed to be a safety issue you can always file a complaint on the DOT website - www.nhtsa.dot.gov - if they get a enough maybe we'll get a recall and a forged piston rod ... hello turbo and N2O - now we're talking |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by torque on 03/02/06 at 18:06:27 Reelthing wrote:
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by Reelthing on 03/02/06 at 18:33:55 Oh I agree it shouldn't have blown like that nor should have yours - I just don't think it's all that common or finding a clean used head to work the ports on would be easy. Glad both you guys got out with your hides and safety issues far out last the manufac waranty, I might file one if I was either one of you guys. |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by WD on 03/02/06 at 21:53:51 In any production run, there are going to be some "culls" that slip through. If you've been in the Savage scene for a few years (I joined Bert's old board in 1998), you might remember how FEW of these bikes have catastrophically failed. 2 or 3 fires, likely due to the cut rate fuel hose (costs 15 CENTS to fix that glitch). 3 or 4 blown con rods. A few failed CDIs (no biggie, it's $10 worth of parts from Radio Shack). A few busted timing chains. All in all, a suprisingly strong showing from what is basically a low rent entry level bike. I still like AND trust mine... -WD |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by Bugscraper on 03/02/06 at 22:21:23 WD wrote:
You're probly right. Sounds like the voice of reason to me. |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by tjhart on 03/03/06 at 07:23:16 So here's a question from a non-mechanic to all the experienced mechanics out there (be it professional or shade tree): With all these mods available to increase the HP of the Savage, is it possible that they are pushing the engine beyond the tolerances for which it was designed? Might that be a contributing factor to these thrown rods? ??? |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by Reelthing on 03/03/06 at 09:20:53 Possible I guess however it's not the bottom end on these engines that look a little weak to me - and of the higher HP engines here I do not see them posting about a thrown rod - to me carb rejet, freer flow pipe and air intake is just tune'n - bored to near 700cc , reground camshaft, opening up the ports, and such like that creates a good deal more HP and so far those engines seem to hanging in there |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by mmosel on 03/03/06 at 23:11:13 what would be the ideal replacement rod for the savage? What type of material? I wonder if it's possible to either have some made or find an aftermarket that would fit? |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by klx650sm2002 on 03/05/06 at 03:01:54 I have a Carrillo rod for my SR 500 project. It's possible they do a rod for the Savage. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by John O'Neill on 03/05/06 at 13:58:49 ??? What if anything do these bike with thrown rods have in common? What years were they and what mods were made to each? What muffler, carb jetting and so on. I am not trying to blame this on anything, I just want to know if there is anything I can try to do to prevent a problem with mine. John O'Neill |
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Title: Re: The Death of a Savage Post by WD on 03/05/06 at 20:10:23 They were all second generation, 98-01s. As for preventing it, not much. Keep the oil clean (frequent changes), run the right weight for ambient conditions, keep the tires at or within 3 psi of sidewall maximum pressure. Any and everything you can do to keep the stress on the engine lower. Oh, and run the belt with a much lower tension level than the factory states. My Savage is set hyper lean, has a basically open exhuast, and regularly saw 100+ mph runs. When I replace the gas tank and front brake hose, it will again. -WD |
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