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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer mod? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1139756032 Message started by bikingb on 02/12/06 at 06:53:52 |
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Title: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer mod? Post by bikingb on 02/12/06 at 06:53:52 I'm sure it is on here somewhere. I'm sorry I can't find it. I'm wondering what the measurable difference in performance is when you rejet, do the white spacer mod, and get a new exhaust say like a Supertrapp. I talked to the Suzuki service guy Friday and he said you only get a 10% difference in power w/ the rejet, 20% w/ rejet and exhaust. He didn't even want to talk about white spacer mods. Will I screw up the fuel air mix if I put on the K & N air filter before doing the mods? Like I could ride on the snow right now anyway. The way that you guys tell it, your experience is like night and day. I'm trying to reconcile these before I take the drill to the carberator. It makes me nervous. Thanks for your help. Biking B |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by Reelthing on 02/12/06 at 07:01:44 20% would be night/day difference and without a dyno all I can do is go by seat of the pants feel - yes it makes a big difference - 20% sounds too high me. On the K&N filter - I sure wouldn't do it with out a re-jet |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by bikingb on 02/12/06 at 07:18:03 What about rejetting vs rejetting & white spacer mod? More difference with the new exhaust? |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by Reelthing on 02/12/06 at 07:37:56 It all works together - if you just rejet and up the mixture you have dealt with the very low throttle and very high throttle and ignored the mid range when the bike spends most of it's time - now a larger main jet does effect the midrange some but pulling the needle out of the way sooner effects it far more - that is what the white spacer mod does |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by Ed_L. on 02/12/06 at 08:42:06 There was a dyno test posted by Odar last year comparing a stock motor to one with a performance exhaust and rejet. The modified setup put out about 12% more than stock if I remember right. I just did a search on "Odar" and found it, just don't know how to copy the graph. |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by lancer on 02/12/06 at 10:35:58 Odar's Savage site... http://photobucket.com/albums/v124/Odar1/Odars%20Savage/ Odar's dyno chart page from his site... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Odar1/Odars%20Savage/Dynobeforeafter.jpg You will see that the hp went from 25.1 to 33.0 hp, and the torque from 40.9 to 49.9. These readings are at the rear wheel...so this is TRUE POWER. This works out to be a 30% increase in hp and a 25% increase in torque. This is with a Raask straight drag pipe and a rejetted and well tuned carburetor. Odar has a very fine Savage and it runs very well. Note, however, that it is not maxed out. With a performance carb like a Mikuni or Amal roundslide, or one of the flatslide carbs, and a larger header pipe with a supertrapp muffler for example, the power/torque gains can be even more. Throw in a performance cam and boost it to another level. A Savage has the potentioal to be safely taken up to the 50 hp range, which is what Suzuki should have done in the first place. |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by Dynobob on 02/12/06 at 11:43:31 bikingb wrote:
You want to do all three. Here's why: There are three circuits in our Mikunis. 1. Pilot Circuit (with slow mixture screw) - 0->1/8th throttle 2. Needle and needle jet - 1/8th->3/4 throttle 3. Main jet - 3/4->WFO So you remove the cap from the slow mixture screw and richen the mixture...this takes care of the pilot circuit. You reduce the size of the white spacer...this takes care of the mid range. You put in a bigger main jet...this takes care of the top end. 20% sounds about right. My bike with a Supertrapp and a rejet hauls butt 8) Trust me, you will be very satisfied. In stock form these bikes run outa steam on the interstate. I haven't checked the top end on mine but I have no doubt it will pull strong to 100 mph+. |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by 911radioman on 02/12/06 at 12:36:35 I'm still new to all the rejetting stuff. I've gotten the idle mixture mod done, the white spacer mod done. Have yet to do the main jet mod -- my question is this -- what performance gain will one see by going ahead with the main jet mod yet staying with the stock can on the Savage? I'm not planning on staying with the stock can, but it may be awhile before funds (and the wifey) let me spend more money after just buying the bike! :D |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by Dynobob on 02/12/06 at 12:49:17 911radioman wrote:
IMO, with the stock muffler (can?), your original main jet should be fine for now. Not a whole lot to gain by going larger. I'd probably hold off changing it until you do a muffler swap. You probably saw a noticable difference by doing the white spacer and slow mixture screw. These bikes are pretty lean in those areas. |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by slavy on 02/12/06 at 12:51:33 I don't believe You will see any top end gain. The main jet controlls basically top end performance. If You have still the original exhaust, the exhaust will restrict You. You will probably just run richer and depending on the main jet it might even hurt the performance. |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by 911radioman on 02/12/06 at 14:02:55 Dynobob wrote:
That's what I needed to know. I'll just hold off on the main jet until I'm ready to swap the muffler. Thanks! |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by bikingb on 02/12/06 at 17:27:22 Do you still get about a hundred miles to the tank? |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by Hammy211 on 02/12/06 at 21:19:08 911radioman wrote:
I'd just hold off until you could do both. Our bikes are very lean and it seems to vary depending on the bike so the K&N need a rejet. But it's so easy you could try it out pretty easy. But do the muffler and jets as soon as you can. I don't disagree at all with the %20 figure and I am inclined to think Lancers figures are more correct. I also think the top-end(55-90) is one area it benifits the most as before there would be little response at highway speeds and after there has always been plenty. The Savage is very receptive to these modifications. It's not like putting a fart can on a car, or some loud pipes and pretending that your ride is now fast. It really makes a very noticable difference. Oh and you don't have to spring for a supertap. Sportster mufflers will acomplish the same thing for very cheap. |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by Reelthing on 02/12/06 at 22:25:57 bikingb wrote:
Yes, until you hit reserve that is - unless your testing your bike a great deal - i've tested my a couple of times enough to only get 80 til reserve |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by 911radioman on 02/12/06 at 23:12:19 Hammy211 wrote:
What about the different HD model number mufflers I'm seeing over on eBay? I think one was 60605-97, IIRC. Will that one work OK? |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by Odar on 02/12/06 at 23:39:07 This is what I wrote last summer about performance. Today I had the chance to use a VERICOM VC200 to check howe fast my bike was. I tryed this one 5 years ago after some mods with the pipe and and rejetted carb, but as some of you know I have made some more mods today with KN filter and totaly empty pipe, and then had it on a dyno for perfect rejet. Today I got proof for that everything was perfect. 5 years ago the best time was 5,98 sek, and I was very pleased with that result, but today after 3 runs my best time was 4,51 sec. and 67 meters. One of my friends tested at the same time his Honda Pan euoropean and he got 3,93 sek. as best time. One more thing, I had the bike up for high weelies twice and it was only on the trottle not that I left the clutch to fast, not very god times on this runs, only scary, nerly wet my pants, because I didnt think the bike was abel to do this when I was flat on the tank. Take care Odar in Sweden No I didnt run the bike 0-100 when it was stock, but I have seen figures like 8,0-8,8 sec. Dont know if they are the right numbers. But I am verry verry pleaced with my figures. I did some runs 0-50 km/h as well. Best time was 2,07 sec and 14 meters. Odar I think this is the answer people want to know if its worth it to spend some bucks on mods. Odar |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by Dynobob on 02/13/06 at 01:33:13 bikingb wrote:
Last time I checked I got 52 mpg. Quite respectable. |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by Savage_Rob on 02/13/06 at 07:24:20 Yeah, with MAC muffler, a 55 pilot and a 152.5 main I got about 55 MPG. Now with the Amal Mk2 carb, I'm getting more like 40 MPG. |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by Reelthing on 02/13/06 at 07:27:10 that the carb difference or the throttle hand due to repeated testing |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by Savage_Rob on 02/13/06 at 07:58:52 I'm sure it's some of both but mostly the carb, I think. I may need to rejet it though. I haven't looked around for decent prices on Amal jets yet though. |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by lancer on 02/13/06 at 08:46:50 Savage_Rob wrote:
Rob, I get right at 50 mpg when cruising, and maybe 47-48 mpg when riding hard. I still have the 38mm Amal with the stock jets on my bike. Why is your milage so low? Did you get the 36mm or 38mm Amal? |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by Reelthing on 02/13/06 at 09:10:38 if you lay hands on a down size jet it would be interesting - i still have the 38mm in the box ... to many toys not enough time! lancer do you have any jets for the amals? |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by Savage_Rob on 02/13/06 at 11:50:04 lancer wrote:
It's the 38mm and the only change I've made to it since I got it from you was to add the vacuum port and then tweak the tuning. It may not be perfectly tuned but it's pretty darned close. I haven't pulled the jets to see what size they are. Nor have I looked to see what setting the needle is on though the reference material I've read indicates it's adjustable. |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by lancer on 02/13/06 at 18:36:06 I do not have any jets for the Amal's, but every part possible is available on www.britishonly.com. I believe the 38mm Amal has a #330 main jet...or maybe the #300, and the needle has 5 slots for tuning. |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by Savage_Rob on 02/17/06 at 14:38:36 Well, the literature says that carb should normally have a 320main jet in it. I hadn't pulled the carb but I went ahead and ordered a 310 and a 300 earlier this week to play with. Just this afternoon I pulled the seat and tank and then pulled the cap/spring/slide/needle out of the carb. The needle does indeed have 5 notches and the clip was set on the next to the lowest/richest. I raised it one notch to the center position for starters. I haven't pulled the main jet yet but plan to later this weekend. LOL, as I was writing this, the jets arrived via UPS. |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by bikingb on 02/17/06 at 16:36:05 O.K. I ordered a 152.5 main jet today. Almost ready to do the mod. Nervous about drilling access to the pilot jet. There is only one white spacer right? I asked the guy as the Suzuki dealership today. Yes, I ordered my Supertrapp from him, about as good as I could find online. O.K. I didn't go on ebay and I know I could have gotten cheaper harley pipes, but, I was nervous about the fit. He just gave me two washers and said put them behind the white spacer to lift the needle up. Does that make sense? He hadn't heard of sanding the spacer down to half of its size. |
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Title: Re: % Performance Increase w/ Rejetting vs Spacer Post by Dynobob on 02/17/06 at 19:19:45 I'm using 157.5 jet with a Supertrapp. Most others here are too. On the plug over the slow mixture screw - drill ever so slowly. Use a very light touch just before you go through the plug. FYI I had to take some metal off the end of the header pipe so the Supertrapp mounting bolt would line up. Once I did that it fit super. I put Permatex high temp silicone on the junction. Either your mechanic is wrong or you misunderstood him. You want to reduce the spacer, not add to it. Either sand down the original spacer to 1/2 its thickness or use washers equal to 1/2 the thickness of the white spacer in place of it. And yes only one white spacer. There are nice pics in the Tech Documents area here. |
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