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Message started by Bugscraper on 01/31/06 at 19:51:25

Title: 2-part question
Post by Bugscraper on 01/31/06 at 19:51:25

1. How many of you ride stock (no mods to carb/intake/ exhaust)? And, how satisfied are you w/performance?

2. I understand that, theoretically, the stock setup (running lean) isn't ideal; but, how much actual potential danger to the engine is involved? It seems to me that many people have been running stock setup for a long time w/no ill effects.

Re. the EPA regs, I wouldn't want to do the mods, then have to undo them. I know a lot of people are saying the regs are unenforceable; but, we don't really know that -- especially w/a possible $10,000 fine.
We also don't know for sure if global warming is a reality.

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by Roadie on 02/01/06 at 04:18:13

1. How many of you ride stock (no mods to carb/intake/ exhaust)? And, how satisfied are you w/performance?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Its ok. Backfires aren't that bad, if its only once in a while. But continous you will see some kind of damage, eventually. I've ridden stock two years now. Going mod this summer. I can't imagine once you'd go there you'd ever want to go back stock.

----

Re. the EPA regs, I wouldn't want to do the mods, then have to undo them. I know a lot of people are saying the regs are unenforceable; but, we don't really know that -- especially w/a possible $10,000 fine.
We also don't know for sure if global warming is a reality.

-----
You don't have to do the mods. Infact you could just drill out the brass plug and tune you carb better. (which probably takes all of about 5 minutes.) Do you really think someone at a testing site is going to know the difference between a Mac, Jardine, Stock, Harley, muffler? I doubt it....

You'll find that all of us here (if I may be so bold) will tell you to ride the bike as you like. That's the fun of the Savage, make it the way you like. If you like stock, stay stock. I for one, would atleast drill the brass plug and tune the carb.

- Roadie :D

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by pgolden on 02/01/06 at 06:40:19

My 2001 had a Jardine muffler and a 155 main jet when I got it. I "detuned" to a sportster muffler and 152.5 main jet, and shaved the white spacer to about half it's original thickness. It seems my bike starts and runs perfectly and gets good fuel milage. It is very inexpensive and simple to do these mods.

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by Savage_Rob on 02/01/06 at 09:16:41

Umm, not stock.

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by SouthernMD on 02/01/06 at 09:28:01

Minimal mod (K & N filter) but I do get backfire (had backfire before K & N). Since I burned up a piston several years ago in my boat due to a lean mixture I am planning to at least do the white spacer mod.

SOMD

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by PerrydaSavage on 02/01/06 at 09:52:05

I run a bone stock 2003 LS650 and I have to say, for the type of Riding I do, I completely satisfied with the performance ... mine doesn't backfire much at all ... only little "huffs" once and awhile when suddenly closing the throttle on deceleration. No complaints, but the sound clip of the Harley muffler mod has got me thinkin' I'd like to do that one of these years ...

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by Steve530 on 02/01/06 at 15:36:58

I seriously doubt that the stock engine is running lean enough to cause damage. Suzuki would have lots of warranty claims if that were the case.

I also doubt that you have to worry about EPA showing up at you door. I'm sure they only enforce against shops and dealers that violate the law. Remember that law has been in effect since the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1977 became effective in 1979.

If you have to take your bike in for inspection, the locals may have a problem with the mods.

BTW the problem would be ground level ozone, not global warming.

Steve

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by SouthernMD on 02/01/06 at 15:52:03

BTW when I say mine backfires, it backfires on almost every ride. Sometimes when I downshift, and almost always when I shut it down.

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by Reelthing on 02/01/06 at 19:08:04

SouthernMD wrote:

and be nice to it give it at least 150 jet and a couple turns out on the mixture

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by Bugscraper on 02/01/06 at 22:11:58

Well, I know what I WANT to do:
high-performance carb from Lancer, 700cc oversized piston, JC Whitney glasspack fishtail muffler, etc., etc. (besides some structural & cosmetic stuff).

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by Reelthing on 02/02/06 at 04:42:15

right on! - hey I think the epa was going to give us one chopper per lifetime or some such thing

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by rokrover on 02/02/06 at 11:34:38

Almost stock, except for one size larger on pilot and main jets and air screw out 2.5 turns. Still backfires now and then with a frequency depending somewhat on warmup time, temperature and humidity. I can almost guarantee a backfire slamming the throttle shut and holding at say mid rpm...... one-two-three... kapowie! Sometimes like a howitzer going off. The fun part is I can scare huge flocks of pigeons off the power lines. The bad part was when it happened next to a cop car and I imagined he was reaching for his sidearm

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by Bugscraper on 02/02/06 at 12:32:33

Reelthing wrote:

right on! - hey I think the epa was going to give us one chopper per lifetime or some such thing

And, I'd have absolutely no problem doing it with the Savage, since any bigger bike I'd buy would probly have FI, anyway -- but the way I understand it (and I could be wrong) is that you can't modify an existing bike; it has to be a ground-up build.
These rediculous EPA regs are gonna make "outlaws" out of a lotta "motorcyclists".

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by Savage_Rob on 02/02/06 at 12:34:14

I thought it only applied to model year 2006 and later too.

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by Bugscraper on 02/02/06 at 12:41:52

rokrover wrote:

I can almost guarantee a backfire slamming the throttle shut and holding at say mid rpm...... one-two-three... kapowie! Sometimes like a howitzer going off. The fun part is I can scare huge flocks of pigeons off the power lines. The bad part was when it happened next to a cop car and I imagined he was reaching for his sidearm

Seems to me a case could be made that backfire is potentially more hazardous than emissions. I can see the headlines now: "Motorcyclist shot to death by cop -- EPA to blame!" ::)

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by Bugscraper on 02/02/06 at 12:46:25

Bugscraper wrote:

Seems to me a case could be made that backfire is potentially more hazardous than emissions. I can see the headlines now: "Motorcyclist shot to death by cop -- EPA to blame!" ::)

Officer says, "All I know is that I heard what sounded like a gunshot, then saw 'SAVAGE'. I just knew I had to fire."

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by Bugscraper on 02/02/06 at 12:55:08

Savage_Rob wrote:

I thought it only applied to model year 2006 and later too.

I'm in CA; I think changing exhaust has been illegal for awhile. We have a local HA chapter here; I wonder if that'll influence enforcement.

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by Dynobob on 02/02/06 at 13:47:52

rokrover wrote:

Almost stock, except for one size larger on pilot and main jets and air screw out 2.5 turns.

You should do the white spacer mod. You've richened 0 ->1/8 throttle (pilot jet and slow mixture screw) and 3/4 ->full throttle (main jet) but neglected 1/8 -> 3/4 throttle (needle and white spacer).

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by Kaishaku on 02/02/06 at 19:30:58

Do you think the 700cc overbore would have a significant impact?

If you figure it's going to be a proportional power increase,
32/650 == x/700
x == 34.5 hp

So only a 2.5 hp gain from that. But then of course the aftermarket carburetor and any headwork would probably add a bit more.

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by Reelthing on 02/02/06 at 20:18:40

Don't know for sure - Woodworker did the overbore and worked over the exhaust port - it sounds like his a teara$$ machine now.

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by Bugscraper on 02/02/06 at 22:25:47

Reelthing wrote:

Don't know for sure - Woodworker did the overbore and worked over the exhaust port - it sounds like his a teara$$ machine now.

I'm almost tempted to be right up front and ask some EPA official EXACTLY what the parameters are, and what I can legally get away with -- even tho it'll make me an enforcement target. At least it'd be cut & dry; and, I could pass on the info. I've read reports; but, some things are still unclear. Hey, and for a small price, I might even be pursuaded to not give 'em all your names & numbers! ;D

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by Reelthing on 02/03/06 at 14:01:04

Oh if they can pick this 650 single out from the almost ear bleeding loud pipes that end right under the crankcase, spiked horn ram aired, stroked, bored, cam'd v-twins around me - aok! :)

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by Steve530 on 02/03/06 at 16:39:04

Bugscraper wrote:

I'm in CA; I think changing exhaust has been illegal for awhile. We have a local HA chapter here; I wonder if that'll influence enforcement.

I'm pretty sure that the regulation that banned modifying anything that might effect emissions has been in effect sind the 1977 Clean Air Act Amendments became effective in 1979.

The 2006 changes are just lower emissions standards. There's a lower standard coming in 2010.

The one bike per lifetime exclusion allows a person to build one bike from a kit, IIRC.

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by Digger on 02/06/06 at 21:29:21

Mine is stock except for the fact that I've turned the air screw out a bit.

I get a backfire about every other ride. Not a big deal w/ me. The bike runs well and will start most mornings without choke.

I will say that I live at 6500' elevation and the bike runs quite a bit better up here than it did when I lived in Houston, TX (basically sea-level).

YMMV.

Title: Re: 2-part question
Post by Bugscraper on 02/07/06 at 11:42:56

Digger wrote:

I live at sea level (Santa Cruz, CA -- central coast).