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Message started by Dogpoo on 01/21/06 at 11:03:12

Title: starter teeth broken
Post by Dogpoo on 01/21/06 at 11:03:12

I just found out that a few starter teeth are broken. Should I take apart the LH cover to remove the broken teeth? Also, when taking apart starter, a screw got sucked into the black hole. HOw do I recover that screw? I got a quote for a new starter. Something like 400 canadian. Anyone have one for cheaper. It's an 86 savage. Cheers ;D

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by SAMM on 01/21/06 at 11:15:19

Better take the cover off !! They have a problen with breaking the case where the starter gear idler gear mounts inside the case !!! Once the cover is off, slide the 2 gears off and inspect the case.. Mine has been welded up and seems to work fine...

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by vroom1776 on 01/21/06 at 12:06:45

Junk yard or ebay for that starter motor... yeah, gotta get those teeth outa there!

Black hole: try a magnet on a stick.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/86-SUZUKI-SAVAGE-LS650-LS-650-CHROME-STARTER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ10066QQitemZ4605471145QQrdZ1

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by Digger on 01/22/06 at 08:57:54

Black hole tip:

On my bike (see signature) the starter is very easy to get off. I pulled it off and cleared several things out of the well, including an unidentified item. I hate when that happens!

Now, whenever I'm doing any work in that area of the bike, I cover the starter motor area w/ a rag.

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by SAMM on 01/26/06 at 10:48:37

Dog ?? Tell us what you found was the prob with your bike?? Was it starter only or other things also ??

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by Dogpoo on 01/26/06 at 13:43:27

We'll this is what I have found. The gears that turn the flywheel, from the starter to the flywheel, those mounts are broken. There is a couple of teeth missing from the flywheel, a missing tooth from a gear that turns the flywheel, and broken starter gears inside of the cover. Looks like I will have to get a new flywheel, weld the gear mounts, and new gears, plus an armiture for the starter. I'll let you know how it goes.

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by Savage_Rob on 01/26/06 at 13:46:49

Just out of curiosity, what year is the bike? I was wondering if this might be a result of the reported backlash issue.

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by SAMM on 01/26/06 at 15:53:18

Mine has been welded up also !! Its an 87 Now Dog, bet your glad you pulled the side cover instead of just putting in a new starter !! 2 damaged starters Now that would hurt even worse !!

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by Greg_650 on 01/26/06 at 22:46:06

I used this in another post to show timing marks, but what parts? You have teeth off the rotor too?

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/Rotor01-2web.jpg

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by Kropatchek on 01/27/06 at 01:25:05

Savage_Rob wrote:

Just out of curiosity, what year is the bike? I was wondering if this might be a result of the reported backlash issue.

The backlash issue, that's right!

The starter gears and their bearing supports are weak designed. Have been beefed up in 1991. Furthermore the design was revised again in 1996 with the incorporation of a limiter in the second gear.

To avoid future damage on pre-1991 Savages you can install an electronic devise that opens the exhaust valve when the engine is switched off.

Will post the scematic later to-day.

Greetz
Kropatchek ;D

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by Savage_Rob on 01/27/06 at 05:51:07

Stop The Backlash Thread (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1094731092)

Antiklack Plans (http://www.ls650.de/techdocs/antiklack/)
If you run the URL from the above link through Altavista's Babelfish translator (http://babelfish.altavista.com/), you can read it pretty well.

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by Kropatchek on 01/27/06 at 07:02:40

Savage_Rob wrote:

This design works without relais. And with the kind permission of Gerd Honnacker of the German LS650 forum I post it here.

Gerd made one for me, I did the installation and it works fine. No more "fart"when switching of the engine. The device is hardwired and put into a "plastic"tube of about 1/2 by 1" which can be placed anywhere you like.
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8531/decoout18jq.jpg

Greetz
Kropatchek ;D

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by SAMM on 01/27/06 at 08:38:42

Greg... On your pic.. Remove the two smaller gears. Where they ride in the case, It breaks the case out and has to be welded and redrilled to accept the shaft the gear rides on... Mine looks like crap from the previous owner but seems to be holding up.....

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by SAMM on 01/28/06 at 18:06:24

Dogpoo ... any way for you to take a pic of your case with the 2 small gears removed for show and tell ??

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by Dogpoo on 01/28/06 at 18:06:54

Pretty much, teeth of every gear from the starter to the Flywheel are missing teeth. Does anyone know how to get the flywheel off. Do I jut unscrew the bolt inside of the LH cover, that is attached to the Flywheel and magnetic part? I am scared of unscrewing it, don't know what will happen?

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by Dogpoo on 01/28/06 at 18:08:36

When I put everything back together, I'll make just to adjust the carbs to minimize backlash, backfire.

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by Kropatchek on 01/29/06 at 06:13:06

Dogpoo wrote:

The bolt has to be loosened just a bit. Then you defenetly need a Suzuki puller which you screw on the thread of the rotor. Use any other puller (e.g. treelegged ) and you will damage the rotor.

Greetz
Kropatchek ;D

Greetz

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by theikeman on 03/07/06 at 12:19:17

I decided to try a different approach to the broken forward starter gear mount issue. I bought a "stick" of J-B Weld, mixed (kneaded) it until it was a uniform color then pressed it in place in three layers with the sleeve in place. Before the compound solidified, I turned the shaft several times and then removed it. I think it will work and hold. Pictures as soon as it's cured and done.
FYI
http://jbweld.net/img/jbstik_lrg.jpg

http://jbweld.net/products/jbstik.php

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by SAMM on 03/07/06 at 13:28:45

J B Weld is good stuff ....But under the abuse the case takes I dont think it will hold up.... After the white spacer mod and the mixture screw plug mod, Shut down doesnt seem to be as violent....

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by Max_Morley on 03/07/06 at 16:00:20

Someone pointed out there are parts from a flood damaged 87 on e-bay. Just another solution as the parts needed to fix the case should not be damaged by water.

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by theikeman on 04/12/06 at 16:00:08

Just a follow up. The JB weld is holding fine sofar, no noise, no leaks, it works.
FYI

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by SAMM on 04/12/06 at 16:30:45

That is great !!! Hope it continues....

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by Suzuki86prince on 10/11/22 at 16:01:38

Hi everyone, just a quick question related to the topic, I’ve taken my phone cover off to inspect my teeth after bad noise, I found no broken teeth but did find a small crack along one tooth.
Is there a way to fix this before it becomes a problem?
Possibly JB weld or a real weld ?

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by TheSneeze on 10/11/22 at 16:29:41

Replace the gear with any cracked teeth. Or you will end up doing the same job much sooner if you try to repair it.

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by Moarpower on 10/11/22 at 18:05:00

Definitely replace it. If I knew of this issue a couple of months ago I'd still be riding. Replace with the updated gears and case cover if yours is an early model.

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by Suzuki86prince on 10/12/22 at 10:32:42

Awesome thanks for the info
Now is there a recommended place to get the flywheel gear from?

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by DragBikeMike on 10/12/22 at 10:57:08

eBay.

You might wanna try and use more accurate terminology, like "Starter Driven Gear" or "Starter Clutch Assembly".

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by DragBikeMike on 10/12/22 at 11:00:42

eBay.

You might wanna try and use more accurate terminology, like "Starter Driven Gear" or "Starter Clutch Assembly".

You could also buy a new one. The starter clutch assembly is part number 12600-24831 and it costs about $310.

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by Suzuki86prince on 10/12/22 at 15:40:28

Ok thanks I will try to do that.
To be honest I’m not sure what piece it is,
It is the big gear attached to shaft under the left hand side case cover, the one that spins freely one way but not the other. I always just thought it was called the fly wheel ?
What would the term be for this gear

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by Moarpower on 10/12/22 at 18:41:54

While I understand where Mike is coming from, I think you need to replace all 3 gears in the starter chain. The starter clutch gear is thicker on the newer models, the older ones also don't have a torque limiter and your idler gear is probably close to fracturing if there is already a sign of damage.

The part you are talking about is the starter clutch assembly gear part number 12600-24831

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by Moarpower on 10/12/22 at 18:47:38

5E7877786664353B7D7F64636E680D0 wrote:

The largest gear mounted at the flywheel area is called the starter clutch gear and is part of the starter clutch assembly. That mates with the torque-limiting idle gear which then mates to the idle gear that is driven by the starter itself.

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by och on 10/12/22 at 23:34:38

After I reassembled my stator cover, only for it to keep leaking, this is what my starter sound like right now, this is different from what I remember, sounds like it is struggling. I didn't break any gears, but I did disassemble and then reassemble the idle limiting gear. Both washers are correctly installed on each side of the idler limiting gear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk1_s2rXt6Y

Title: Re: starter teeth broken
Post by Suzuki86prince on 10/13/22 at 13:49:55

Awesome. Thank you for all the great information and the right terminology.
I will start looking for everything I need :)