SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Kicking over a big thumper
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1135126657

Message started by jimbrough on 12/20/05 at 16:57:37

Title: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by jimbrough on 12/20/05 at 16:57:37

I've heard it would be impossible to kick over a savage so that's why there is just electric start....never questioned it but then talking to old guys from England way back when and heard they had 750's and whatnot long ago but, of course, no electric start. So they must have had to kick start 'em all - what a job that would have been! Doctors must have seen a lot of pulled groins in the day!

Anybody ever had the occasion to kick-start a big thumper? Was it a killer?

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by sluggo on 12/20/05 at 17:53:15

i had a 81 gn400 suzuki that was kick start only thumper

i would hit the kill switch, i never had a key in it, i just left it turned on.. since it ran on a magneto i never even kept a battery in it. i knew no one would ever get it started.

it used a maunuel device (simular to the electric on the savage) to find tdc. on the proper stroke.
heres how it workeded, you pull hand lever, gently kick the kickstart lever, when hand lever clicked in place, jump up and kick the baby over. sometimes again and again.

if you didn't know how to work the lever. it got ugly. i watch it throw several people over the handle bars as the kick start recoiled under compression. of course those were the macho guys who claimed they could start it on the compression stroke. i let em and laffed my butt off.

it can be done, but why.... ;D

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by lancer on 12/20/05 at 18:34:18

My Goldstar had a major performance cam, 11:1 comp. piston, and NO compression release. It provided all the motivation you needed to learn the proper starting technique right away.

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by bentwheel on 12/20/05 at 19:42:20

In the mid seventies I owned a 1949 AJS model 18 500cc single. It had an adjustable lever so you could retard/advance the timing to aid starting and running. It had a racing magneto on it and once you learned the drill it always started easily, but it took a fullbody kick to start it.

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by Tim Krantz on 12/20/05 at 20:15:16

I had a 78 Yamaha SR500, kick start only. Once you knew the procedure it was a breeze. I actually would opt for that system, at least the manual comp release. as the engine would light on the first kick or second. But it could embarrass you.

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by bentwheel on 12/20/05 at 20:26:11

I had a Yamaha SRX 600 Single, 1986 I believe. If it started on the first 5 kicks, well that was a good thing. If it did not start, then you were in for a work out. Sometimes 20 to 30 kicks is what it took. I remember several times, becoming too exhausted to continue.

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by sluggo on 12/20/05 at 20:35:47

bentwheel wrote:

I remember several times, becoming too exhausted to continue.

well that and the bruised instep. ;)

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by Paladin on 12/20/05 at 21:00:14

bentwheel wrote:

....If it did not start, then you were in for a work out. Sometimes 20 to 30 kicks is what it took. I remember several times, becoming too exhausted to continue.

That can happen with little singles too. We dug my uncle's RV125 out of the shed where it had sat for a year or so. Kick. Kick. Kick. Kick. Push up and down the street. Kick. Kick. I go in the house for a drink, Wendy asks, "Did you remember to turn on the gas?" "What do you think we are, stupid?" Go back out. Bike starts in aq short while. Go back in the house. Wendy has the class to not smirk.

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by diesel on 12/20/05 at 22:18:44

big single no more difficult than 80 cu in Indian, 40 per cylinder, retard spark and have at it. no comp. release either, but the 7 to 1 comp. ratio helped a lot.

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by SavagePielk on 12/20/05 at 22:20:05

there actually is a kickstartkit available for Savage but it's $2500... >:(

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by sluggo on 12/20/05 at 23:23:18

SavagePielk wrote:

there actually is a kickstartkit available for Savage but it's $2500... >:(

half the price of a new savage just to get that "old time" feel. sorry i'll stick to the electric start. i kicked my last thumper for over 20 years. thank goodness for modern technology.

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by SavagePielk on 12/21/05 at 00:53:06

haha I feel the same about it. Always call the startbutton the lazy-people-button and I love it! Is a Savage that cheap over there? :o In Europe this would be less than 1/3 of a new Savage, not 1/2... :o
ow and by the way, I prefer pushing a button over breaking a leg ;)

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by klx650sm2002 on 12/21/05 at 04:29:19

XT 500 I had in S.A. was startable without using the compression release.

Clive W :D

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by Ed_L. on 12/21/05 at 06:42:08

I've got a little Ducati 250, the thing will give you a sore ankle for a week when it kicks back. When I first put together the timing was a bit advanced, thought I broke an ankle a couple times trying to get it started. It's backwards with the kicker on the left and shifter on the right. Don't think I would like to take on a big thumper or V twin.

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by rokrover on 12/21/05 at 07:32:07

I learned the hard way on a Velocette 500. Magneto ignition with manual advance / retard (start fully retarded), Amal carb with no idle circuit (manually prime / flood till gas dripped) and woefully low kickstart gearing that required a full body leap to turn over fast enough. The most critical part was to position the piston just so on the compresion / ignition stroke. The bump-start technique was to put it in gear and roll the bike backwards till it locked on max compression. If you had the luxury of a manual compression release you'd ease the piston over with the kickstart to max compression, then pull the compression release to nudge the piston just a shade past this point then kick. I almost won a Norton International in a bet when the owner said if I could start it it was mine. Of course he'd hope I'd go sailing over the bars when it kicked back! When he saw I was an old timer who knew the drill the offer was promptly retracted. I'm sure the Savage would be easy with a manual compression release and kick start. Probably like Yamaha's SR500 there might be a little window where there was a pointer on the end of the camshaft to indicate the correct kickstart position in the engine cycle. Back in the good old days real men didn't need such steenkin gadgets ;)

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by vroom1776 on 12/21/05 at 08:00:14

I'm gonna have to learn the kickstart tricks... got a 1975 rd 350 in the garage that still needs some love... no electric starter... breaks my heart ;)

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by Digger on 12/21/05 at 08:34:10

I wish street bikes still had kick-starters (along w/ electric starters).

My first two big street bikes were 750cc triples (a '75 Suzuki GT750 and a '77 Yamaha XS750D). Even though they had electric starters, I'd always kick-start them.

If either of these bikes took more than two kicks to start, hot or cold, it meant I needed to do a tune-up (three sets of points :().

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by bentwheel on 12/21/05 at 08:44:52

Digger wrote:

I wish street bikes still had kick-starters (along w/ electric starters).

Yeah, I agree Digger. When I had a Honda 750 Four, I routinely kick started it in a crowd. It was surprisingly easy to start.

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by jimbrough on 12/21/05 at 09:15:58

Paladin wrote:

I love it when they DON'T smirk! :)

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by savage777 on 12/21/05 at 10:32:39

dad used to have an old NORTON and that thing was like kickin over a Buick

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by SeeAPierce on 12/21/05 at 11:01:43

Given my 'druthers I'd take both...after right knee surgery last year there are days when I just wouldn't be able to get my old 2 stroke 250 kicked over much less this big street single. BUT when I've got enough ibuprophen in my system and want to feel cool (I never look all that cool, but I like to feel it every now and then), I'd love to be able to start it up with a big kick.

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by XxQualitySealxX on 12/21/05 at 11:33:09

My father used to own a Yamaha XT 650 enduro that was kick only. It had an automatic compression release but the trick was to let the kick come all the way back up to resting before kicking it again... when I forgot to do that a few times I thought my leg would snap.

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by Ed_L. on 12/21/05 at 14:11:59

Once you learn the procedure it is a breeze, it's the learning that can be painful ;D.

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by Trippah on 12/21/05 at 16:40:35

As I approach 60, I find kick starting my butt in the mornng about all I'm up for. I remember stalling a bike near Fenway Park in the middle of a major intersection-Oh joy, kickstarting in front of a crowd--most of who would just as soon run you over :D. I thank heavens for the button. Now, can we just up the temp a little before the battery discharges..

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by penguinsscareme on 12/24/05 at 10:48:41

SavagePielk wrote:

there actually is a kickstartkit available for Savage but it's $2500... >:(

Available from where? No, I don't have 2500 to drop on a kicker, but I'm curious enough to want to see how it's set up.

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by Boxer on 12/26/05 at 09:11:37

In 1976 I owned a used ('73) Harley Superglide (1200 twin) that had no electric starter. It wasn't really that hard to start. I just had to stand up on the kicker and come down pretty hard and firm. It usually started on the first kick.

I wouldn't imagine the thumper would be too difficult. I wish all bikes had backup kick starters.

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by Kaishaku on 12/26/05 at 10:27:25

Anyone have a kick-start bike near Orlando? It's now a life goal that I kick start a bike. ;D

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by barb36jack31 on 12/29/05 at 19:01:51

As a young sailor in the early 50's,I had a number of four stroke singles whiile stationed in southern Cal. Great bikes but each had its own starting drill....Retard the spark, pull in on the compression release and roll her over to tdc. Heave up and come down on the kick-starter with all youv'e got and Follow Through!... There would than be a moment of truth. Either the bike would go THUMP, THUMP, THUMP, or you would do the fastest one-legged deep knee bend in history! This was no time to be cautious. Any half-way approach would get the H... kicked out of you. Once you got the hang of it, there was no sweat. The old 500cc thumpers would start on the first kick as a rule.

I have never fallen out of love with the big singles and my recent ownership of a Suzuki GN 400, Honda NX650, Honda GB 500, Suzuki DR 650, Kawasaki KLR 650, and now my Suzuki S-40 have attested to this. My old bikes of my youth, a Norton ES2 500, Ariel Red Hunter 500, and a BSA Gold Star 500 TT were wonderful, but the newer ones are a lot more civilized.

Sorry for the long dissertation, but this link regarding starting the big singles just brought back so many memories.

Ride safe and have a Happy New Year.

Jack H.

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by sluggo on 12/29/05 at 19:07:33

so ya got a gn400 x or t.

i had a t that i rode for 98,000 miles.

killed the engine but still got lots of good parts. gimme a shout if ya need anything.

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by PerrydaSavage on 12/30/05 at 04:42:27

:oJack ... you once owned a Honda GB500?? Wow, please tell us about it! The GB is one of my all-time fave Bikes ... but sadly they were never available in Canada ...

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by Greg_650 on 12/30/05 at 17:28:28

In the mid 80's, I had a friend that had a Yamaha XT 500. It was a seriously clumsy, over weight bike with a stump puller of an engine. When it was cold, the bike always started. D@man, what a thumper motor, as long as it was going in a straight line. Great for hill climbs if you could just stay on...

It had an indicator to find TDC when starting, but this was literally a bike to die for, if you ever stalled it in a mud hole. One of us would ask, "where's George?", and back down the trail we'd go. We'd have to take shifts on the kick starter.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/xtangle.jpg

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by barb36jack31 on 01/01/06 at 09:56:56

For PerrydaSavage -

The GB 500 was a great bike! I put a White Bros. header and SuperTrapp exhaust on it and also came down one tooth on the countershaft sprocket to give it a little more grunt off the line. As I recall, I came up a couple of sizes on both the pilot and the main jet and that was it. The bike had the most perfect balance between the gear ratios and engine output that I have ever seen. It always seemed to be in just the exact gear at all times. It was a hoot to ride. Really brought out the"boy racer" in me, but the cafe bars were a little too radical for my 65 year old body and I finally sold it. Still miss the old girl all the same.

Separate subject - Was in Newfoundland last summer. Came over on the ferry from N. Sidney and then went up the west coast to the top of the country. What a beautiful place you have up there! Great food, outstanding scenery and some of the nicest people in the world.

Keep on thumping!

Jack H.

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by MacAttack on 04/07/06 at 13:04:00

I have an XR650R Honda that has no electric start (I call it my anti-theft device). It starts on the first or second kick, unless I fell off it, in which case it takes a few more.

It has two helpful features: an automatic compression release, and a reduction-gear kickstarter. It does take a bit of practice, but I've never broken anything.

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by Bugscraper on 04/09/06 at 14:10:41

penguinsscareme wrote:

Available from where? No, I don't have 2500 to drop on a kicker, but I'm curious enough to want to see how it's set up.

I'd also like to see it, if anyone has a link.

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by SeeAPierce on 04/10/06 at 08:45:37

Bugscraper wrote:

I'd also like to see it, if anyone has a link.

I've searched high and low - I'm begining to think it's a myth...

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by vroom1776 on 04/10/06 at 13:03:31

How would you know when the piston is at the right place to kick and start?

Title: Re: Kicking over a big thumper
Post by mpescatori on 04/10/06 at 13:55:14

Ed_L. wrote:

Well, back in 1978 I bought 3rd hand a beautiful Ducati Scrambler 450 cc, she had a 6V. electrical system so kick start only, on the left side as Ed_L. says, and the decomprsssion lever under the clutch lever that was so big you'd mistake it for an extra clutch/rear brake/whatever. That bike demanded respect !!!
http://digilander.libero.it/massimo254/MOTO/ducati_scramler.JPG
I remember it took me quite a while to learn the drill, and when I showed up in school many laughed, snickering at my 'sheperdmobile' >:(. I dared one to race each other's bike around the block, starting from a dead engine(off), he had a 125cc 2stroke, I had my sheperdmobile... I kicked his to life, clicked into gear and sped off in a cloud of blue smoke, expecting to hear the big single thundering behind me... when I arrived after going 'round the blick, he was sitting and massaging his ankle... 8)

Once the decompressor cable snapped, and after two feeble attempts at kickstaring her with brute force, I ... saw the light and bump-started her!

If you look at the pic carefully, you'll notice 1) the spark plug is VERY easy to reach! 2) the sidestand has a very neat footpeg so you can flip it open (next to the foot brake) and 3) a center stand ;D ;D ;D

She also had a huge, 8 inch round pan for an air filter on the right side, which I liked very much.

Now you see why I like the savage so much!

Maurizio
http://www.ducati.com/heritage/anni60/scrambler/scrambler.jhtml;jsessionid=43TOTABWCIS0UCRNCB3CFFIKFUIHSIV1