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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
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Message started by Tom W.K on 12/07/05 at 21:06:47

Title: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Tom W.K on 12/07/05 at 21:06:47

First of all , hello everyone , i really like this forum .
The thing is like this : my 97 Savage runs as fast as hell and beat the s$%&@ out of the mayoriti of customs in dragraceing ;D , it has a max speed of(police 8) got my on route by radar) 187km/h (116,8 miles) .
BUT I WHAN TO EXTREME THE SAVAGE TO ITS LIMITS , i have 1450 softail , and a gsxr 750 , but i really LOVE RIDING THE SAVAGE , and i LOVE to have to most agressive and fastest custom in motrcycle meeting.
I been using the 36mm amal carb from Lancer , and its really good working , but , now , is time to get out of the box ,, so...
---Any ideas of how can i turbo a Savage?
---Which turbo?
---Where can i fuond this turbo?
I will apresheate any help you can give me .
See ya
And sorry for my bad english :P

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Max_Morley on 12/07/05 at 22:23:18

If you go to the other non defunct Savage site, there are pictures on the home page of some Sabages w/turbos. http://www.heise-workstations.de/ls650/LS650-e.html. Note the forum has been off for months but this page works OK as far as I know.

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by lancer on 12/08/05 at 05:34:48

You should also consider using a nitrous system instead of a turbo. It is much less expensive to begin with, and a lot easier to install. Additionally, you can ride normally when it is turned off, and when you want extra power you just have to flip the switch to turn it on.

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Tom W.K on 12/08/05 at 07:39:25

Max_Morley wrote:

I already saw thatultra tricked turbo savage , i tried to contacted him several times by mail , but no luck , i wonder if that is a special turbo or just anordinari car turbo or something like that, any way , thanks a lot Max for your help-
Im still looking for help and ideas , so thamks very much for anything you can give .
Once again , sorry for my english :P
[img][/img]

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Tom W.K on 12/08/05 at 07:49:08

lancer wrote:

Hello Lancer , its being a while since i talk to you , i wasnt able to enter to the forum ,..-. im
using your 36mm amal carb , it runs just grate , it is all what i expexted.
About your idea of using a nitrous system , well , Nos is not very popular in my country , honestly , i dont know were to get it , and i am not really intrested in Nos.
I whant a turbo because i whant to have permanent boost 8) , and i love the noise of the turbo .

Well Michael , nice to talk to you again , and i will apresheate any help or ideas you can give me.
And sorry for my english. :P

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by torque on 12/08/05 at 09:47:31

i know jim-r was thinking about trying a turbo ,i cant remember what it was called or what size it was...

my brother has the(250 hp inline 4) dodge neon srt-4 with the factory turbo, and u can turn off the boost with the push of a button. but my dads ford f-750 caterpiller turbo diesel, u cant turn the boost off ,just depends how they are made.

and they do sound killer ;D

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Jim_R on 12/08/05 at 09:58:32

Yeah I wanted to try a turbo for the Savage. I think with its low compression ratio it would be ideal for a project. U would need a small turbo so there wont be much lag and if u get an adjustable wastegate u can set how many lbs u want. I think nitrious is something that I could see on a sportbike but not the Savage, but that is my opinion :)

I am doing some research and hopefully I'll be able to make one.

only bad thing would be rejetting to provide the extra fuel for the extra air.. Trial and error I guess lol.

only bad thing is with a single cylinder people say the revs would irratic.. hmmm

http://suzukisavage.com/gallery/STriebe.jpg

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Tom W.K on 12/08/05 at 13:28:51

Jim_R wrote:

Hello Jim-R , , do you know which turbo do i have to use? where can i find one? do i have to make some changes to my stock engine? how much $$$ does a turbo for the savage can cost?

Im not looking for super mega boost , or amazing extreme max speed , im just looking for more boost and more speed , but nothing super extreme , and i dont whant to make changes to the engine .

I will apresheate any help you can give me , and ideas are welcome.

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Jim_R on 12/08/05 at 19:57:44

Hmm it would have to be a small turbo.. I was also wondering beside extra fuel delivery most turbos are oil or water cooled. Sounds like a complicated project.

I found a couple on ebay.. this is the best match.
no description on oil or water cooled.. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VERY-SMALL-TURBO-FOR-GO-KARTS-OR-BIKES-NEW-N-R_W0QQitemZ8019721027QQcategoryZ33742QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

or this one

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/IHI-RHF3-Motorbike-0-2-0-5L-Turbocharger-Turbolader_W0QQitemZ8020809389QQcategoryZ33742QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

300 bucks is alot of money to me :)

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Tom W.K on 12/08/05 at 20:09:40

Jim_R wrote:

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWW YEEEEEEEESSSSS finally , yeeeeeeeeeeeeeesss , thanks a lot Jim-R , ;D
... im so happy , i know where to get the turbo now , .. Jim-R , you make me one happy bastard 8)
Thank you and thanks to everyone e that help me up with this , i promise thata i will post some pictures of my "Turbo Savage" ;). jajajaja
YUPIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Jim_R on 12/08/05 at 20:14:43

CAUTION! U know u can blow ur engine easy with this thing right? U are gonna have the set the pressure like 4 to 5 lbs (really low) and fabricate the heck out of a header. I would buy some rusty piece of crap header and cut it or make ur own.

I would seriously not do this because if u dont know what ur doing (like me for example) u will hurt ur engine bad.. So dont blame me for any advice :)

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Reelthing on 12/08/05 at 21:26:54

Not sure I want to sit on top of turbo - be cool when it was working but if it comes apart where do the blades go :o

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by sluggo on 12/08/05 at 21:42:46

i do not understand why people buy the volkswagen of the motorcycle world, then turn around and want to build it up like a porshe.

"you can't expect a pint container to hold a quart, if it holds a pint, it's doing all that can be expected."

if you want a hot rod bike, go buy a hot rod bike. but keep the savage of course.

of course the white spacer and rejetting mods help performance, but those are things that should have came that way.

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Tom W.K on 12/09/05 at 12:41:10

Jim_R wrote:

Jim-R , what do you mean when you say: "fabricate the heck out of a header. I would buy some rusty piece of crap header and cut it or make ur own."
What is the header?
Is it really probably that im going to blow-up my engine?
Please... explain me as mucha s you can.
Thanks a lot

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by sluggo on 12/09/05 at 13:26:22

tom, not to be mean spirited, but if you don't know what a header is, you really don't have a clue and shouldn't even be thinking about a turbo upgrade.

sure that bike looks great, yet i would think it's a bear to keep up.

i love the savage for what it is. a simple to operate and maintain, single cylinder tourque. and some great styling.

like i have said, want a hot rod, go buy a hot rod.

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Savage_Rob on 12/09/05 at 13:52:13

Yeah, I just saw a 964cc supercharged single in the January 2006 issue of Cycle World. It's a very nice-looking bike, especially since it's so clean. I mean, all the cables and such are inside the frame so all you see is simplicity. The seat looks uncomfortable though. I thought it very telling that the builder, Roger Goldammer, named the bike "Trouble". A quote from the article:

Quote:

What about the name? Goldammer explains, "Trouble is what you expect any time you put a blower on an engine!" Especially an air-cooled powerplant.

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by torque on 12/09/05 at 14:18:10

Tom W.K wrote:

Jim-R , what do you mean when you say: "fabricate the heck out of a header. I would buy some rusty piece of

crap header and cut it or make ur own."
What is the header?
Is it really probably that im going to blow-up my engine?
Please... explain me as mucha s you can.
Thanks a lot

the header is the exhaust pipe that comes out of the head of the engine. the turbo would run off of your exhaust gases, then that air would go into your air box. to do this u need to know what every part inside the engine looks like,and how it functions.u cant just throw it on,

ps, u said u have three bikes so u have seven headers ;) ;D

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Tom W.K on 12/09/05 at 19:11:50

... >:( :( :( The problem was that i didnt understand what does the word "header" means in english ??? , i live in south america , i speeek spanish , and my english is not very good. :P..so Sluggo and Torque , now i know the "heather" is what in spanish is called as a " lumbera de escape". ;D , As i said before , i will apresheate any ideas or help you can give me .

Torque , it seems like you know what you are talking about , so what do you think about this :--- this is a picture of what i have in mind ( in a very basical way): i wil make a short 5cms diameter exhaust pipe that goes from the header to the turbo "hot air intake" , and i will make another pipe that goes from the turbo "cool air out-take" to the 36mm amal carb.

Later i will figure where to install the water tank for refreshing the turbo.

And of course my mechanic will adjust the turbo to the engine needs ;)

----------What kind of precautians do you think i maus have in mind?----- do i have to modifi something?-------does anybody here really knows something about trubos? :P
Once again , i will apresheate any ideas or help you can give me.
And sorry for my english , and forgive me if sometime i dont understand the mmmeanings of some words .....like header ..jejeje 8)
thanks a lot

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Jim_R on 12/09/05 at 20:19:10

1 Ok you are still gonna need a pump (oil or water) to circulate the (water or oil) to cool the turbo because they get so hot they crack if not properly cooled.

2 People I have met that install turbos(my cousin and some friends online) always beef up the piston, valves, even use metal gaskets. The reason why is when u use a turbo u are pumping pressurized air into the engine, with more fuel this creates some serious stress that the engine is not designed to cope with using stock parts.
So rebuild your engine with super strong parts that dont exist because Savages have little to no aftermarket support in that department

3 Ok so u finally got that turbo going and somehow u might trust the stock internal parts(giggle). Now here is the bad part.. Most turbos use intercoolers to cool that air down. When the air is compressed energy is released with heat.. This air needs to be cooled down in a pressurized system of more pipes and an intercooler.

4 Where is all this stuff gonna fit? Esp the intercooler. U can get small intercoolers like one off a mazda rx7 but it has to be in front of the motorcycle, otherwise the hot air from the engine will just heat it up even worse.

5 My god u must be rich hehe. For the price of all this stuff to work properly you could have already bought a nice used 600 cc sportbike that would still outrace the savage with a turbo.

My advice is dont do it. If your bike runs, u are better off than some Savage owners.

Read some stuff on this site about turbos. Its interesting but very dangerous.

http://www.homemadeturbo.com/

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Tom W.K on 12/09/05 at 20:56:09

Jim-R .. thanks a lot for all the important information and advices, .. sorry but what is to "beef up the pistons"?(sounds like breaking).
:-/

And, im not rich(but i would like to) jeje ;D. , y just have some money that i beeing saving for a while.

I must confess that i am a bit afraid for my engine health , but .im not going to pull back with this project, i mean , this is not a project , this is something that it will be done ,but i dont have the last word , the last word came from my mechanic , he is oficcial of kawasaki , suszuki , honda , guzzi , triunmph and yamaha , among others , .. he said i am a cazy mo$%&$ fu$&%$ , but he aprooves the idea , and he will personally intall the turbo , but i didnt find a turbo in my country for a bike , but now , thanks to you , im going to by some of thouse you show me on e-bay .

I know that there are dangers for my engine , but i will try to stress as less as i can the engine , but i MUST PUT A TURBO ON MY SAVAGE. 8)

Now you may be asking your selfs , "What kind of "oficcial mechanic" would aproobe to put a turbo on that bike?"-- Honestly , i dont know , meavy he just whant to be payed by the instalation and setup , but for the othe hand , he sais that he will make his self responsable for the work in deed.

Once again , opinions , ideas , help,, they are all welcome.
You have already help me a lot , i really apresheate that .
Thanks

P.S: Does anyone in thinks thata the stock engine can handle a turbo? :P
And what about the blue savage of the picture , it does have a turbo , .. does anyone knows something about that bike?

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Jim_R on 12/10/05 at 08:02:03

beefing up the engine would consist of stronger pistons , valves, springs. everything u could possibly think of including special gaskets.

Good luck with the project. I think it can be done but it will at the very least shorten the life of the engine drastically, if not blow it up all together.

With the pic of the bike it obviously can be done but without the proper precautions, and failsafes, it is almost a certain death sentence to your engine.

have fun with it and remember start very low boost then increase. That way u dont blow it up immediately.
The smaller turbo that you use will spool(spin up ) faster preventing turbo lag. Oh and since this turbo and "header" wil get extremely hot. Try avoiding important things like LEGS and plastic parts on your bike.

Oh and if u do get it done. Take pics of the steps and problems u occured. It would make a great post. Good luck and may the boost be with u.

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Tom W.K on 12/10/05 at 08:42:35

Thanks a lot for your help jim-R , i promise i will post a lot of pics of the projest .

But , just explain this to me , i didnt understand this :
"The smaller turbo that you use will spool(spin up ) faster preventing turbo lag."
What is "lag"? Spool? (spin up?
please , explain the hole sentence ;D
Thanks a lot 8)

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by torque on 12/10/05 at 09:40:51

Tom W.K wrote:

all turbos have "lag" its the responsiveness of the engine when u pull the throttle back. when the bike is stock as soon as u pull the throttle you accelerate forward,with a turbo the bike will take a few seconds to accellerate after u pull the throttle back,the smaller the turbo less "lag". "lag" on a motorcycle can be dangerous becuase it happens when accellerating and decellerating,deccellerating it takes a few seconds to stop pushing air into the engine.

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Kaishaku on 12/10/05 at 11:07:19

I'd have to say probably a 10-15hp shot of nitrous would be the way to go. No engine modification needed, would just have to work out how to supply the extra fuel.

Besides, it's very Mad Max. ;D

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Ed_L. on 12/10/05 at 15:50:47

Maybe a supercharger instead of a turbo would be the way to go. You wouldn't need to rework the exhaust plumbing and worry about cooling all the excessive heat found with turbocharging. Some creative belts and pullies seems a lot easier than all the cutting and welding needed to install a turbo. Just a thought. Good luck on whichever you choose, try not to pop an engine.

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by torque on 12/10/05 at 17:00:07

Ed_L. wrote:

im with u on this one,a supercharger is is quite a bit safer and would produce more boost,but it has to run off the crankshaft which would be one hell of a tricky project and a very costly one.

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Tom W.K on 12/10/05 at 17:11:15

Ed_L. wrote:

Jajajaja...."pop an engine"jejej that sounds funny ;D

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Jim_R on 12/10/05 at 21:30:01

only bad thing with superchargers is that they rob some power from the engine. Exhaust is free energy. Also superchargers USUALLY dont provide as much boost in cars.. Motorcycles maybe a different story tho..

interesting concept and sounds like a safer way to go for sure.

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Oklahoma_Mike on 12/13/05 at 20:47:55

The parasitic loss of a supercharger would be insignificant. The real issue would be heat and pressure of a supercharger. It is an always-on pressure booster constantly producing heat. The added heat I could not be negated by the standard radiant cooling of the engine. In my opinion the entire engine would have to be redesigned with improved parts. I would find a different avenue of speed. Just My 2¢
8)

Title: Re: Can i put a turbo on my Savage?
Post by Savage_Rob on 12/14/05 at 05:06:05

This is the 964cc supercharged thumper I mentioned.
http://photos.motorcycle-usa.com/goldhammer-fastdates.jpg

This is another article about it and the builder. (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/Article_Page.aspx?ArticleID=2727&Page=1&WT.mc_id=35071&WT.dcsvid=34576774)