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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Strange whislte (fixed) /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1126095083 Message started by Mambo on 09/07/05 at 05:11:23 |
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Title: Strange whislte (fixed) Post by Mambo on 09/07/05 at 05:11:23 Hello I've got some strange whistle coming from the engine when the bike is moving. The sound is louder if I accelerate and nearly disappear when I slow down. Anybody knows what it can be (and how to fix it)? (this is a stock 1993 LS650P with 26.000km (16.000 miles)) If you wish I can try to record the sound and post it. And I've got another question : does anybody here ever experienced the RAASK Dragpipe (6") exhaust line? Will it improve power? Is the sound louder? Ho, another question (last one). I'll change the oil (and the filter) soon. What's the best oil for this bike? Synthetic? Semi synthetic? Non synthetic? PS : please excuse my poor english, this isn't my mother tongue ::) |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by torque on 09/07/05 at 06:21:08 the whistle sounds like its the belt.the belt will "whine" if its too tight, just loosen it up a notch.as for oil i use 10w-40 non synthetic.i dont have a raask so i cant help there. |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Mambo on 09/07/05 at 06:27:32 I'll check the belt. |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Intruder Guy on 09/07/05 at 08:08:37 Oil tends to be a hotly debated topic for motorcycles. The main thing is to stay away from car oils with friction modifiers. They are not good for motorcycles with wet clutches and wet sump lubrication. You can buy the motocycle specific oils but they are expensive. I use Shell Rotella T. It is very good for bikes. Heres and article about it http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Consumables.html There is a forum that is specifically about rotella for bikes http://www.rotella.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=Motorcycle Rotella is actually an oil that is made for deisel engines but it doesn't have any additives or friction modifiers. The best thing is that it is about $8 for a 4 gallon jug of it at walmart. |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Mambo on 09/07/05 at 10:22:10 OK, I've made some tests and... the sound isn't coming from the belt :-/ I think (but I can be wrong) it should coming from the valves or something in the "upper engine" (sorry, I don't know how to translate "Haut moteur" in english) Maybe changing the oil is the answer, but I doubt of it (the sound is really loud). |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by torque on 09/07/05 at 10:26:49 the valves will make a slapping or clicking sound not a whistle. |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by shawn_b on 09/07/05 at 10:31:32 i use 10/40 car oil castrol gtx the clutch dose not slip and its a hell of lot cheaper then shell or motorcycle oil thats what i use i even went to the dlear they use car oil shawn ;D |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Reelthing on 09/07/05 at 14:36:41 Mambo wrote:
It does not do this if you just speed up the engine in nuetral? How about in gear clutch disengaged? I was thinking the cam chain follower or guide - but it seems unlikely it would only do this when you are moving perhaps the speedometer cable? |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Mambo on 09/07/05 at 20:15:28 No noticable sound in neutral (bike not moving) The sound disapear if I disengage the clucth (even if riding at "fast" speed). The sound seems to follow the engine rpm. I'll try to record it to show you, but imagine you are riding your savage oil dry and the valves are squeaking and you'll have a good idea of what the sound's like. |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Reelthing on 09/08/05 at 05:36:18 Sorry, it may be the word whistle that does not cause us to think anything serious is wrong – however the sound the engine would make with out any oil in it as the valves and bearing surfaces ran dry would indeed be a serious sound! I've heard that one before with a broken oil pump drive on a V8. Let me understand this – when you are going fast, pull in the clutch and maintain the same engine RPM the sound stops? |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Mambo on 09/08/05 at 09:37:34 Reelthing wrote:
The sound is audible when cruising, is louder when accelerating, and nearly disappear when slowing down. In neutral there is no noticable sound (even at high rpm). |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by vroom1776 on 09/08/05 at 14:15:44 Could this be the air intake? I've got a KN fitted directly to the carb, and it whistles, but not too loud... Definitely changes with rpm and acceleration... |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Mambo on 09/09/05 at 00:34:12 I'll change the air filter... and tell you if it change something. PS: is it a good idea to install a K&N replacement air filter instead of a Suzuki one? |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by klx650sm2002 on 09/09/05 at 02:16:01 I had special straight cut primary gears on my 350 LC and they used to whistle / whine under load. Does the Savage have straight cut primaries ? Just a thought. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Mambo on 09/09/05 at 04:30:12 klx650sm2002 wrote:
The bike is still stock (I'll do many changes* soon, but still stock) *Keihin FCR41 carb, RAASK 6" Drag Pipes, Yamaha Dragstar 125 seats (driver and passenger), new color, chromes, maybe HH forward controls... |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by klx650sm2002 on 09/09/05 at 04:54:41 Primary gears are the one on the end of the crank and the one on the back of the clutch, if the teeth are cut at an angle they are helical cut and if the teeth are cut parallel to the axis of the crank/clutch then they are straight cut. Straight cut are more efficient but louder. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by torque on 09/09/05 at 05:04:59 the gears are straight cut,but mine dont make a sound,make sure u have enough oil ;D |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Greg_650 on 09/11/05 at 08:27:58 Mambo wrote:
First we need to isolate the sound to either the engine or the chassis. You are in neutral, sitting still, with high RPMs and no sound? How about in 1st gear with the clutch pulled in, sitting still, and high RPMs? Does the sound follow the road speed or the engine speed? Does the sound frequency steadily increase as you go faster, or does the sound frequency go up and down with RPMs as you shift gears? I don't think this has anything to do with oil...just look at the sight glass and forget it. |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Mambo on 09/14/05 at 03:28:07 Ok, I've done some test 1. the sound increase with rpms. 2. there's nearly no sound in 1st gear and the 3rd is the louder. 3. there's no sound in neutral. 4. there's no sound in gear if the bike's not moving (even at high rpm). 5. if the sound is loud and I disengage clutch the sound disapear (even if RPM doesn't change). 6. the sound is more audible when accelerating and less when slowing down. oil and filters changed -> no change air filter changed -> no change secondary belt waxed* -> no change * old trick when a belt is squeaking is to "lube" it with some bee wax (I used that since many years for belt on cars) |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Ed_L. on 09/14/05 at 13:00:00 Maybe the belt is too tight, just a guess. ??? |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by torque on 09/14/05 at 14:21:35 torque wrote:
mambo said it wasnt the belt,he "waxed"it for some reason though?? ???. mambo,just loosen it and see if it stops,you have tryed everthing else! |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by GaThumper on 09/15/05 at 19:05:17 Mambo wrote:
Sounds like it could be transmission noise. Is it more of a "whir" than a "whistle"? Did you see any metal when you changed your oil? Did it just start doing it or do you think you just now noticed it? Or has it always done it and it is just getting louder? |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Mambo on 09/16/05 at 05:03:34 It's very difficult the know precisely where the sound is coming from, but IMO the sound is coming from the top of the engine... not exactly where the transmission is (but of course, I can be completely wrong :-/). Its definitely not a whirr. As I described it earlier it's sounds like the valves were runing completely dry. I didn't notice something wrong in the oil (except it was dark brown instead of clear yellow the oil was "clean") As far as I can remember the engine has allways done this sound (but I'm not the first owner of this bike). I've got loosen the belt but not rided the bike since, so I don't know if it has change anything... PS: once again I appologise for my bad english, I hope you can guess everything I'm trying to say ^^ |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by GaThumper on 09/16/05 at 08:22:00 First of all, your English is fine, so don't worry about that. And welcome, by the way. Forgot to say that earlier. According to your checklist, you only experience noise when the bike is in motion, is in gear, and the clutch is engaged, which would seem to point to the tranny and/or belt. The belt is still moving when the bike is in neutral or the clutch is disengaged, but you say there is no noise then, so that doesn't sound like the belt unless the belt is only making noise when it is under a load. If it were noise from the top end of the engine, you should hear it when the engine was being revved while the bike wasn't moving, but you say you don't hear it then. So it sounds like tranny noise to me unless it is a noise related to the engine or drivetrain being under a load. |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by torque on 09/16/05 at 09:34:49 the belt will only "whine" if it is under a load,so if u disengage the clutch it will stop,until u engage it,also if u let off the throttle it will stop, but as soon as u accellerate it will start whining. the sound comes from the sprocket that comes out of the transmission not the one on the back wheel. if the belts too tight it will lead to premature wear of the mecanhical parts. 8) |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Ed_L. on 09/17/05 at 06:46:39 Like I said before, maybe the belt is too tight. Luck on the noise. |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Greg_650 on 09/17/05 at 07:12:12 torque wrote:
I dunno. Has this been corrected? Oh yeah, belt wax is an old Harley trick. You can also use soap, but that isn't the issue. The belt should be clean, though. |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Savage_Rob on 09/17/05 at 11:23:02 Greg_650 wrote:
I've even used soap on car belts - but more as a troubleshooting tool to help tell if the squeal was the belt or bearings on an alternator, etc. |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Ed_L. on 09/17/05 at 13:25:38 I've used beeswax on fan belts, works great for a worn one. My favorite beeswax use is on stiff zippers (no I don't mean waxing the carrot ;)) like on a riding jacket or leather. Luck again with the noise. |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Greg_650 on 09/17/05 at 22:32:11 Ed_L. wrote:
I hate it when my zipper squeals too 8) |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Greg_650 on 09/23/05 at 05:53:32 Well? |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Mambo on 09/23/05 at 12:05:12 I've tryed many thing and this darn sound is still here :/ Yesterday I was pretty sure to have found the origin of the problem (2 of the 3 silent-blocs of the front pulley's "cover" were missing so pulley the was rubbing against the cover)... but as incredible as it can be there's now less noise... Yes... LESS... :o It su** If the noise had disappeared I would say myself: nice, I've fixed that darn problem If the noise had not disappeared I would say myself: well, at least I'm now sure that's someting else But there is still a noise :( Anyway, I found what makes exactly the same noise (to make you an idea): attach a plastic pen's hood at the end of a big rope, make the rope swirl until the hood whistles, now you know what' it sounds like ;D PS: lol, I've just seen darn is "censored"... sorry, I didn't know it was such a bad word :P |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Greg_650 on 09/23/05 at 15:30:14 Mambo wrote:
Okay. I'm going back over my check list, what has been suggested, and what you said that you have done. First, a squeaking belt, squeaks because it has a load on it. When you pull in the clutch and coast along, you have removed that load...There is also no load when sitting still in nuetral. What I want to know is, did you loosen your drive belt yet? You have not said that you did that... |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by torque on 09/23/05 at 15:53:32 do not put "wax"on the belt,all it will do is cause a mess,it will also just hide the real problem. the belt makes this noise if it has too much tension on it ,not because it is rubbing somewhere,u could put all the lube in the world on it but it will still make the noise. someone might have said this already,but try to twist the belt 90 degrees,if u cant do that it needs to be loosened anyway. |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Mambo on 09/24/05 at 00:33:29 Greg_650 : Err, sorry, forgot to say I've loosen the belt (no change... at all) torque : when the belt is a little bit old (mine has 12 years) the rubber is sometimes a little "dry". The wax is not to hide a problem, but is the answer to a specific problem. That's why I used wax (just in case) |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by torque on 09/24/05 at 05:40:10 Mambo wrote:
OK! so its not the belt,the only other thing that dosent have pressure on it ,when u disengage the clutch ,is the clutch. |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Greg_650 on 09/24/05 at 06:21:40 Okay....the clutch is right and the belt is left. To me, this is related to the drive belt, but on which side do you hear the noise? |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Mambo on 09/24/05 at 09:36:36 Greg_650 wrote:
I only hear the sound when driving, so it's difficult to put my ears close to the engine to locate the source ;) BTW, is the Savage in your signature your bike? |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Greg_650 on 09/24/05 at 09:58:59 Mambo wrote:
First, I don't know of any part of the engine that actually "whistles", and if it did I can't imagine how it would still be running. It just seems that you'd have some obvious metallic sounds coming from the engine. Any chance to ride your bike without a helmet, to better hear the sound? It only does it when the bike is moving, right? Yes, that is my bike. |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Mambo on 09/24/05 at 11:14:30 Yep, right, there's only this disturbing sound when the bike is moving. I'll try some burnout to see if I can hear the sound this way (I'm pretty shure my neighbourg will love me much more after that :D). About your bike, is it a Raask exhaust? Can you tell me more about? (increase/decrease power? sound? carb mod,...). I'm planning to buy one (it looks great) but I'm afraid it doesn't sound as nice as a Screamin Eagle :-/ |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Greg_650 on 09/24/05 at 13:49:21 Mambo wrote:
Okay. Rule out the idea of the carb or the engine. It only does it when moving. That leaves the problem from the transmission to the rear wheel. If you can determine which side of the bike is producing the noise, we'll narrow it down some more. Quote:
Overall, I like the Raask. Performance is different. The double-walled header ID is larger than stock. Better breathing gives me a strong top end, but the mid range is not as strong as the SuperTrapp that was on it (on my spouse's now). It came with an optional baffle that I burned up :P and I'm currently working on my own prototype. The sound is Loud (hence, my baffle work). It sounds like 1/2 of any blown out V-Twin with Cobra pipes. Quality is Excellent, Excellent, Excellent. The chrome is great. The mount is perfect. Even has a signature... http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/Raask02web.jpg Other pluses are the lighter weight and the lack of a muffler clamp. It weighs about 7 lbs. The choice is yours...:) With all the good things, the sound is different. If you want deep throaty megaphone sound, better get a Trapp, Jardine, or a Mac. |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte Post by Mambo on 10/07/05 at 01:23:57 I think I've found what was the problem (not hundred % sure, but the noise is no more). I've removre the exhaust and discovered the cylinder/exhaust joint was missing. So there were a liitle space between them and I think when the bike was moving, the engine was turning a little, so was the exhauts, and then the exhaust gaz was whistling by the empty space (like a flute). I fix this problem and there's no more annoying sound... so why am I not 100% sure it was the problem? Because I've changed other problems in the same time, so I duno wich was "whistling" ::) But if your bike starts whistling, look @ the exhaust first ;) |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte (fixed) Post by lancer on 10/07/05 at 07:55:05 I vote for the transmission. It is not in the engine because the noise disappears when in neutral or clutch disengaged...regardless of rpm. The sound is only made when moving down the road and in gear. The belt has been eliminated as a source. It "sounds" like it is coming from the top of the engine because the only time he can hear it is when he is riding...ie sitting on top of the bike...the sound is being transferred from the trans and through the engine ...therefore it "seems" as if it is coming from the top of the engine. |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte (fixed) Post by Starlifter on 10/07/05 at 12:51:42 The only whistling sound I've heard was from my lips when the stealership quoted the cost of replacement parts and accessories ! :o |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte (fixed) Post by cityslickers2 on 11/11/05 at 19:05:23 Hi, this sounds silly, but I was having the same situation. I thought it was coming from the front end somewhere and it turned out to be the speedometer vibrating upon acceleration. If I put my hand over it, it stops. |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte (fixed) Post by Rob. on 11/11/05 at 19:20:58 cityslickers2 wrote:
There are other threads regarding that also... like Speedometer noise? (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1117741468). There are others too. Just be patient and do a few searches. |
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Title: Re: Strange whislte (fixed) Post by Greg_650 on 11/12/05 at 10:14:54 Rattles or whistles? AAHHhhhhhhhh...... ??? |
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