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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Censorship is a slippery slope /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1124973940 Message started by mornhm on 08/25/05 at 05:45:40 |
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Title: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by mornhm on 08/25/05 at 05:45:40 Quote:
Susan wrote: Quote:
A post that by Still Savage that was left intact: Quote:
Susan, I thought about what to write for a while before responding. Plenty of people come to the internet without common courtesy or respect for the other people who are affected by their conduct. This is a price that we pay. I don't think it necessarily justified the censorship placed on the forum. I think your reminder thread about forum conduct would have served to get the people who were sucked into the vortex to go back to their normal posts, and people who are just trying to annoy other members tend to go away when they are rightly ignored or requested to produce something substantial not just inflamatory retoric. No one was crying fire in a crowded theatre, and I don't think the forum was in danger of collapse, so I think the removal of the posts was pretty heavy handed. The post I chose above was from the thread that you cleaned up and is very obviously way off topic and could be considered offensive to a large part of the population, but it wasn't removed. I'm sure there are hundreds of other posts that are also off topic in this forum. I appreciate your attempt to restore order to the forum, and acknowledge your right to do so as an moderator, but I still question the means. I'm not sure that he was referring to censorship (First ammendment of the US constitution) here, but Benjamin Franklin said: Quote:
Kevin |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Savage_Rob on 08/25/05 at 06:51:07 Quote:
Must've been referring to the Patriot Act. |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Savage_Rob on 08/25/05 at 06:58:05 I believe the intent was to remove only those remarks with hateful intent. Personally, I consider that to be light-handed as opposed to removing everything that might possibly offend someone somewhere. I might be the exception rather than the rule there; I don't know. Rob |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Susan on 08/25/05 at 07:19:06 I have been to plenty of forums where the moderators wave a pretty big stick and I don't like that either. I try to be as light-handed as possible while keeping this forum focused on our lovely bikes. What I did was delete a string of back and forth comments that included personal attacks, and name calling. This forum isn't about that. Other stuff I usually let go unless it gets out of hand. Its a beautiful day here today and I can't wait to get out and ride. Hope everyone else has a chance to do the same! |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Oklahoma_Mike on 08/25/05 at 08:21:07 Savage_Rob wrote:
I agree and believe it was very tactfully handled kudos to Susan for the tasteful way in handling this. The way I understand it crude but funny commit allowed. Abuse is not. Just my 2˘ 8) |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by PerrydaSavage on 08/25/05 at 08:49:54 I'm gonna agree with Okie Mike's sentiments ... you're doin' a super job Susan ... kudos and keep it up! Now if only the rain would stop so's I could get out and Ride ... |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Munson_kl279 on 08/25/05 at 08:57:24 I agree that Susan is doing a great job adn is pretty good at not coming across as mean with the so called censorship on this forum. I belong to a couple other forums where I get the impression from most of the posts made by the moderator(s) that they like being an @sshole about what they consider being "off-topic" or "inappropriate." Keep up the good work Susan! ;D ~ Munson |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Still Savage on 08/25/05 at 09:24:38 I applaud Susan for what she did, EXTREMELY lighthanded!!! I also apologize if any of my comments offened anyone! Thanks for such a great place full of info on this bike ;D |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Savi650 on 08/25/05 at 09:29:57 Susan wrote:
I agree... besides.. lets use up the limited space we have in this forum to talk about our bikes and how to make them better... not get used by some people to make offensive comments and other useless stuff. Just a thought. Ride Safe! Savi650 |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Oklahoma_Mike on 08/25/05 at 10:22:20 PerrydaSavage wrote:
Same here on the rain. looks like I might get in a few miles after work today though!!!!! 8) |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Michael on 08/25/05 at 10:37:58 Hi there: Being one of the guilty parties of losing it on this forum once, and then re-thinking my words, I fully understand how things can get blown out of proportion, and fists a blazing... I deleted most of my posts on the subject hours later, after I calmed down, and thought about my actions. I fully agree with Susan, that there is no place for this behaviour on the forum. She deleted posts in an unbiased way, and gracefully as one can. I say HATS OFF TO SUSAN FOR DOING A WONDERFUL JOB. Not only is moderator a time consuming job, but the pay ain't that great either ;) Cheers Michael |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Paladin on 08/25/05 at 10:57:51 This site is privately owned, we are guests. The owner has charged Susan with the very unrewarding task of trying to keep us in line. If you don't like what she is doing you can complain to the owner. Or you can walk. Been there, done that: I was a BBS SysOp '82-89 (where I canned a co-sysop for not deleting a message), a Moderator on the Intelect BBS Network, a participant in the Fido Flame Echo, a moderator at www.dslreports.com. Been there, done that. It is not a fun job, but it is a job that needs to be done -- and by someone who doesn't particularly like doing it. If you think you can do better you can start your own site and your own forum. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Not to mention that no male can ever win an argument against a female. |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Reelthing on 08/25/05 at 11:02:07 Paladin wrote:
even when you think you do..... |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Dynobob on 08/25/05 at 12:30:29 Great job Susan ! Thanks :D |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by mornhm on 08/25/05 at 12:40:22 Two more quotes - first one I don't know where it came from: "Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots." Second: "Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature,nor do the children of men as a whole experince it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" Helen Keller |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by GaThumper on 08/25/05 at 12:49:07 I think Susan does a great job and did the right thing in cleaning up the posts. Thanks, Susan! |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Oklahoma_Mike on 08/25/05 at 13:13:21 Oklahoma_Mike wrote:
Overtime shot that idea to Sheiet :( |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Savage_Rob on 08/25/05 at 13:57:25 With the recent spate of 99-103 F days, I'll take the rain. |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Oklahoma_Mike on 08/25/05 at 14:01:21 Savage_Rob wrote:
That is all we got all week and last weekend. Green country is soggy right now. Mybe I should trade the Savage in for a Seadoo.......NAAAAAAAAAA 8) |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by sluggo on 08/25/05 at 14:07:43 and i go wheeee, wheeee, wheee, all the way down to the gutter. hence the blue flame joke, and responses. our way steering the subject to a more lighthearted conclusion. ;D |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Susan on 08/25/05 at 14:39:18 Thanks to all for making this a very cool place. I went on that ride I mentioned and boy was it beautiful! Nothing like a good ride to make my day. |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Paladin on 08/25/05 at 14:44:45 Took me 10 miles to ride the 4 miles to work today. |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by DavidV on 08/25/05 at 19:50:26 Covered almost 200 miles today. Gotta love the cooler weather! |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Reelthing on 08/25/05 at 21:49:34 Had a fellow Iwork with that lives close to me want to start a car pool today - had to say no as the ride in of the morning through these back roads is the best part of the day! - don't think he understood. |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by mornhm on 08/26/05 at 04:48:50 Aside from riding back and forth to work yesterday, I had an out of town meeting last night so I got to ride back way after dark in the rain, and believe it or not, I passed two riders going the other way on country roads. Everybody waved (I think). Cool. |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by bob jones on 08/26/05 at 14:22:43 susan, i think you do a great thing by volunteering your time to be the moderator for this forum, that said i have to say it struck me as strange that you removed my opinion that i posted last night about forum manners, it wasn't rude or harsh or intended to insult any particular person but just my unbiased views on the topic that you started. the fact that you took it down and closed that topic makes me wonder, :-X i guess as long as our opinions are all the same then they can be shared? |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Greg_650 on 08/26/05 at 15:36:10 Susan is the moderator. It is her appointed job to keep the forum focused on the subject that brings us all here...Bikes. Without some order and direction, and I've seen it before, the forum becomes fragmented. Not good. Good people start leaving. There are plenty of sites where political opinions and current events can be expressed and discussed, but SuzukiSavage is not one of them. Here the subject is bikes, riding and wrenching. Anything else should be taken offlist....a reason for the private message feature. Just be thankful that we have a free open forum and an impartial moderator that treats all of us "strangers" objectively and fairly. Ride safe. |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Paladin on 08/26/05 at 17:37:05 Greg_650 wrote:
I would say anything else should be taken to an appropriate forum. Preferably under a different alias. There are subjects that can spoil friendships -- and I value my friends here too much to want that to happen. It is not, IMO, wise to know too much about another's viewpoints. |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by roughrider on 08/26/05 at 18:27:01 I will agree with you both when it comes to political issues. This forum has no place for that. I do however beleive this forum was intended for more than just folks who just happen to love their Savage. People come to this forum for answers. They come for truth and honesty. You should all give unbiased positive and negitives so they can make an unbiased opion of the bike before they go out and buy one. They come in here looking for information. They find all positive things said about the savage and hear no negative vibes. This forum shouldn't be biased. It should exchange idea's and veiw points good and bad. I think Susan is a great moderator with a positve view about her savage. please remember not everyone has had the same experiences that you have had susan. There are other forms out there on every other bike made and you will find a mix of idea's and opions good and bad. Even "Harley"s. It's really impossible for a bike to be as perfect as this forum makes the savage out to be. |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Paula71 on 08/26/05 at 19:32:55 roughrider wrote:
:-/ Just my opinion here, but if this forum is all about the Savage being great and wonderful why then in topic after topic is someone asking how can I fix or change or why is this happening? It seems to me that there is plenty of Savage faults listed, just a whole bunch of folks who like the ride and enjoy taking care of it. Also my opinion, Harley owners talk about it because they know Harley's are prone to mechanical failure. They give each other heads up so they know what to do when it happens. They do not sell the bike, they like the bike and repair it. Just as the individuals on this forum try to do. Of course there will always be a few who choose to leave the bike behind and try something different. Hmmm , American Company and still no improvements? Savages and most Jap bikes are not known for mechanical failure, they just need tweeked once in awhile. ;) |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by DavidV on 08/26/05 at 21:16:26 RoughRider - The Savage ain't perfect, but it's completely fixable. As a bonus, the common fixes give you more power. Stuck a Screamin' Eagle muffler on after lunch, then rode 125 miles. Nuthin' wrong with mine. Runs hard, sounds great, and got 52 mpg. Backfired a bit, but I expected that. Just needs to be tweaked for the new muffler. Get some tools, and a spare afternoon, and yours will be fine, too. You've already heard the mantra - new jet, idle mix, white spacer. It's not that hard. |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Paladin on 08/27/05 at 08:34:00 Or not. I have no idea if the previous owner did anything. The idle screw cover is gone, but that may have been a dealer/mechanic getting the thing to run reasonable. Haven't looked at the carb so I can't say if it looks as if it has been opened. Don't care. Runs fine by my standards. |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Greg_650 on 08/27/05 at 08:40:44 Paladin wrote:
Oh that goes back to the old "politics and religion" taboo. I happen to think that discussion is constructive. There is nothing wrong with sharing viewpoints as long as everyone is willing to accept that others may think differently. Unfortunately, all too often disagreement leads to insult rather than insight That is the slippery slope.... And in this kind of forum, when one person starts that downward slide, others get dragged down too. That is why we have a moderator.... |
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Title: Re: Censorship is a slippery slope Post by Greg_650 on 08/27/05 at 09:08:59 roughrider wrote:
I don't think that this forum really does anything to glamorize the Savage...to proclaim only it's attributes...or to even claim it to better than any other bike. We all know better. It squeaks and leaks the same as any bike. I know well after years of fixing several Japanese types. I don't know much about actually wrenching a Harley, but then I'm not the one that coined the phrase "paint shaker" either. The Savage seems to have a different dynamic about it. On one hand, it attracts beginning riders that have a lot of questions about riding and wrenching. On the other, it is popular with older riders that have returned to riding (for whatever reason) after a few years out of the saddle. That was my case. The Savage is not like a Gold Wing for example, which is usually driven by older riders that don't (or can't) even do the repairs. They just take it to the dealer. This forum is where we, the Savage Riders, gather. Here our age differences are even greater than the years the Savage has been produced. We all have varying degrees of knowledge about riding and wrenching. Our bikes all have minor differences, too. It may appear that the Savage has a lot of faults because of all the topics for repair. However it can be looked at in two ways. 1. If the topics were all to be condensed down there'd only be 5 or so different issues (backfires, mufflers, petc0ck, etc), and 2. When the bike is running right no one really has anything to say....or they are out riding 8) |
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