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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> savage versus rebel /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1122919386 Message started by argus on 08/01/05 at 11:03:06 |
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Title: savage versus rebel Post by argus on 08/01/05 at 11:03:06 Hello, I am considering buying a 1998 Savage. But while looking at the new S40's the salesperson told me that there was little performance difference between a twin 250 Honda Rebel and a single 650 Suzuki Savage. Can someone give an overall comparison of the two bikes? Many thanks. |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by shawn_b on 08/01/05 at 11:12:22 i took my msf corse on a 250 sadhawk a.k.a nighthawk the savage is way more powerful faster and just a better bike i think he was trying to sell you line of $hit they just whant you to buy a bigger bike and spend more$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ??? i would tell him to kiss my a$$ and that he dose not know any thing about motorcycles shawn |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by DavidV on 08/01/05 at 11:13:25 The Rebel's torque & horsepower are about half of the Savage, but it's only 50 pounds lighter. Sounds to me like he's got a Rebel he needs to sell. |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by DavidV on 08/01/05 at 12:22:43 Looks like Shawn & I posted at the same time. Either way you slice it, the salesguy is dead wrong about the Savage. It's got plenty of power. Can't say that about the Rebel. |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by Hammy211 on 08/01/05 at 12:38:11 I will add that although the Savage is underpowered as it is purchased new, for as little as $100 you can make a BIG performance difference as well as getting rid of the putt-putt sounding motor. The Rebel is probably close to as good as you are going to get off the floor. |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by Kirill on 08/01/05 at 12:53:47 I just traded in my rebel and purchased a brand new Suzuki S40. Althtough, I have nothing bad to say about the Rebel, S 40 is a MUCH better bike overall (more power, better comfort over the potholes, greater stability on the highway (with or without crosswinds), and finally I can take a passanger with me and be able to keep up with traffic. Unless one plans to drive only in Manhattan with constant stop and go, I see very few reasons to own a Rebel. |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by slavy on 08/01/05 at 15:03:14 Let's put it thid way: The sales guy did not lie. He jus presented only part of the truth. I have both bikes and many more. If You take stock Savage and stock Rebel both bikes will have almost the same top speed. Here ends the similarity in the performance. If You don't like or don't want to play with the bike and modify- go for the Rebel ! I don't care how many loughs will there be when I make this statement, but the Rebel is one of the best bikes for what it is. The engineering and the quality are way better than the Suzuki's. The Rebel reliability is notorious. It is hard to think about a better gas milage. And in the same time I am riding a Savage in the city and I am selling my Rebel. What everybody said before me is truth. The key word is MODIFICATIONS and I will say CARE and MAINTENANCE. With the Savage You will have to love the idea of a BIG SINGLE and start working on correcting what the engineres screwed. If You are ready to go this way You will never be sorry about buying a Savage. |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by Paladin on 08/01/05 at 15:09:01 argus wrote:
To quote a truism from hot-rodding: There is no replacement for displacement. Yeah, one could claim that there is little difference in performance. And as long as you don't push the limits it's true -- in normal city riding they would perform similarly and get similar mileage. Just as a six-cylinder Valiant has similar performance to 350V8-2bbl Camaro. But when you pedal to the metal or twist the tiger's tail it is the greater displacement that will transform a greater amount of gasoline into a greater amount of GO. ------------------------------------ I was looking at the GZ250 / 250 Rebel,Viargo,Nighthawk as a 250 is all I really need for my daily commute and running errands. Until I noticed the Savage, only 10% heavier on the road with rider, but with more than double the displacement. I sat on a Rebel, and the side covers poked me in the thighs. I sat on a Savage and fell in love. |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by Ed_L. on 08/01/05 at 15:58:06 Chances are the dealer not only had a Rebel he needed to sell, he also was hoping for you to come back within a year to get something bigger. Get the Savage and tweak it, it's a great bike. ;D |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by babbalou on 08/01/05 at 18:59:05 A Yamaha dealer talked a friend of mine out of buying an S40. He said since it's a single it would beat her up on the highway. ( ;D) So she spent more money to buy a heavier, slower bike, a Yamaha V Star Classic 650. Now she says it's too heavy & was amazed when I told her my S40 buzzes a little at 70 mph but not that bad. I guess the dealer's happy. |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by sluggo on 08/01/05 at 19:12:12 last year when i went to purchase my savage at the local dealer, the salesman balked at "ordering" one for me, bad mouthed the machine, tried to sell me something i didn't want. the owner then stepped in an assured me if that's what i wanted he would find one for me. that he did, had it shipped in two days. when the machine arrived they all rode it and were totally suprised at how well the machine performed. now that i've bobbed it they think it's one of the coolest bikes in town. and well it is... 8) |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by WD on 08/01/05 at 20:47:19 In town, they are both fine. On the highway, the Rebel is the cute little toy motorcycle, the Savage is the motorcycle. Now, the 450 Rebel on the other hand, can/does eat the Savage for lunch given half a chance. Used to annoy me to no end when Lisa had the 450. My current project is a Harley trike conversion...sort of... Engine is a 2 stoke HD from the 19??s. Most likely a 125 Aermacci, although, it also looks like a Hummer engine. Talk about underkill...makes the Rebel look like it has a 426 Hemi in the frame... -WD |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by Weez on 08/01/05 at 21:19:01 I find this comparison all very intereting. "for as little as $100 you can make a BIG performance difference" I just bought a savage and I am wondering what these mods include? Thanks |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by slavy on 08/01/05 at 23:22:36 To answer about the mods under $100 - may be the best thing is to check the old posts . There was a post about all the succesfull and unsuccesfull changes . But for a couple of bucks You can do the carb mod wich will make You smile. For under $5 You can raise the nose of the seat and feel better on a long ride. From eBay You can get pretty inexpensive a Sporty muffler and get better sound and performance. After that You can sell back on eBay the stock muffler and even You may make couple of bucks. |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by Hammy211 on 08/02/05 at 00:45:50 Weez wrote:
Since I wrote that I thought I would answer. I bought a set of screaming eagle II mufflers for $45, K&N drop in for $42 I think, jet $3.50, 10 stainless bolts for putting the carb back together, and some spacers and bolts for the seat. Together including shipping I figured my final cost was $130. Don't worry about the seat, buy a regular sportster muffler and find it all locally and what I did could easily be done for less than $100. But the SEII sound awesome. Highly recommend. As mentioned there are plenty of recommendations as to exactly how you want to adjust your carb depending on your particular set up. I was going to just do the K&N half the white spacer and up the main, but when I found a cheap SEII I decided to just get it all done with so I wouldn't have to open the carb up again later. Took about 8 hours spread out over several weeks. Should have been done in 2 hours if I had any idea what I had been doing. All I can say is don't strip the screws of the carb. Especially the little ones on the inside. That reminds me I forgot to include the $25 for the impact driver. Wished I had bought it first. Didn't help for the little ones though. I had to drill them and then get one of those reverese drill wedge bit deals to get them out. |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by Karen627 on 08/02/05 at 00:50:41 When I was looking for my first bike, it was a choice between the Rebel and the Savage/S40. I chose the S40 because the position of the handlebars and footpegs make for a better fit (for me, at least); and because of the hills here in NE Georgia. Hell, my property's on an incline -- I wasn't sure the little 250 would have enough power to get me up the hill from my driveway to the curb. The S40 isn't so powerful that it'll intimidate a newbie, but the power's there when you're ready for it. I only started riding in March. The Rebel's a great bike, but based on everything I learned about it when I was researching which bike to get, I think by now I would have sold it for something bigger. OTOH, I think I'll be riding the S40 for quite a while. :) |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by PerrydaSavage on 08/02/05 at 03:39:54 8)As a former Rebel owner and current Savage owner, I can personally attest to most of the points previously mentioned. Both are super 'lil Bikes and are pretty evenly matched for the most part. IMHO the Rebel comes out ahead of the Savage in a few minor areas, namely the ease of servicing the battery and spark plugs, fuel milage, bar mounted speedo with trip meter and low speed handling ... though, I suspect that the S40's drag bar set-up has improved this area for the LS considerably. The Savage/S40 beats the Reb with it's belt drive vs chain, overall power-to-weight ratio, super low end torque (climbs hills like a goat!), comfort, more chrome and general "uniqueness". As WD stated, if the CMX450 Rebel were still in the picture, then this discussion might be even more interesting! Have always thought the 450 Rebel was one cool Bike ... wish Honda would reintroduce it ... especially with a belt drive! |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by Tammi on 08/02/05 at 06:25:53 Here's a link to an interesting discussion of the 250 Rebel on a Total Motorcycle forum: http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/BBS/viewtopic.php?t=8 It was started by a Rebel owner in love with his bike, and the Savage is discussed toward the end of the thread. Cheers. Tammi |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by Paladin on 08/02/05 at 12:24:23 Back in the early '80's I was looking for a street bike. I felt that the 250's were just a little bit underpower for the L.A. Freeways, so I was looking at the 400-450cc bikes. Back then there was a Honda CB400, a Kawasaki 440, the Suzuki 450, and I don't remember but I'm sure a Yamaha 4xx. I ended up with a Suzuki GS450E to which I mounted a Quicksilver fairing: http://savage.andruschak.net/FTP/gs450e-quicksilver.jpgpicture not of my bike This bike took me on a vacation to Seatle -- 85mph up I5 thru the central valley to SF (barely pacing traffic in the right lanes) and then up the coast on 2-laners at 45-55 getting 80mpg. In other words, more than capable of anything I asked of it. The 250 class is still a little underpowered for California freeways. But since the 350-450 class is gone and I didn't want a BIG bike so that was what I was looking at. If I could get one I would be riding a: http://savage.andruschak.net/tempter/Image3.jpg Standard frame/sitting (not cruiser style) with a chain drive 400 single (same engine as the Savage 400.) |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by sluggo on 08/02/05 at 13:18:31 gawd i loved my gn 400. it was nearly identical to the one paladin has shown. wish i wouldn't have killed it last year. it was a great bike even with 98,000 miles on it. don't get me wrong i love the savage also, but the 400 was a wedding present from the wife, and i rode both of them for over 20 years. still ride one of them. the bikes in the junk pile now, giving up parts now and then. |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by Kaishaku on 08/02/05 at 13:31:47 Paladin: those bikes are really beautiful. I'd love to have one of those. |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by PerrydaSavage on 08/02/05 at 14:44:09 8)Paladin that 'zuki 400 Thumper in Standard clothes is gorgeous!! I believe that it was also once available with our trusty LS650 engine on board as well? Is Suzuki stil marketing the single cylinder Tempters overseas? |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by Olle Andersen on 08/02/05 at 16:02:15 As an ex rebel rider I think this discussion is pretty interesting. However! What would Savage/S40 vs. Shadow VLX sound like? |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by Paladin on 08/02/05 at 16:26:16 VLX vs. S40 -- VLX is less displacement and 100 pounds heavier. |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by bobo383 on 08/02/05 at 16:57:23 Aha! I've had both a Savage and a VLX600 at the same time! It's hard to say which one I liked better. Wife definitely liked the Honda looks, but the Savage mechanicals. I'm about the same. SUZUKI ADVANTAGES:
HONDA ADVANTAGES:
A DRAW BETWEEN THE TWO:
Hard to say which one I like better, but I still have a Savage and the VLX was sold with no remorse. (I also have a Honda CB1000, and just sold a YZF600 and a Suzuki GS1000. I like anything that runs and/or goes bang) Just my 2 cents. |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by Mr 650 on 08/02/05 at 17:33:06 '06 Shadow VLX Base MSRP $5,399 '06 Shadow VLX Deluxe Base MSRP $5,699 :-/ Good report, Bobo,....but You can buy leathers and/or a good helmet and/or other accessories w/ the price difference vs. a new Savage. |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by threezukes on 08/03/05 at 07:42:23 Paladin wrote:
Sorry, I knows its off subject, but I never noticed that those bikes had the same engine as a Savage. Maybe a new project...650cc tempter....ohhhh! :o link to tempters for sale in Japan ... http://www.goobike.com/cgi-bin/search/search_result.cgi?maker=3&exhaust1=&exhaust2=&model=1030229&baitai_name=&kind= |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by Kropatchek on 08/03/05 at 08:58:42 Now I know why we cannot drain the oilfilter cavety! The Savage frame is different and blocks the access to the drain. Greetz Kropatchek ;D |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by gandalph40 on 08/04/05 at 08:27:07 Another difference...I have NEVER heard a Rebel 250 with ANY kind of sound like a 650...especially with aftemarket mufflers. (Do they even MAKE an aftermarket for the Rebel?) The "aural" experience of the Savage makes it worth it to me. Of course, if quiet is important, they're both pretty silent from the factory... |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by PerrydaSavage on 08/04/05 at 08:36:29 True, even in stock form, the Savage the engine and exhaust sounds are much more "interesting" than those of the Rebel ... and I've heard that the Sportster muffler mod for the LS gives it an even cooler sound! Checked the link for those Tempters for sale in Nippon ... man the more I see those, the more I wish that Suzuki would market the 650 version here in North America ... of course with a front disc brake and belt drive ... |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by bobo383 on 08/04/05 at 19:00:01 I think witha Rebel250, I would just bite the bullet and go with a dirt bike setup, FMF/Supertrapp or something like that. It would probably sound wicked with those 2 itty bitty cylinders. |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by bobo383 on 08/04/05 at 19:02:58 Mr 650 wrote:
Would you believe, I bought the 2000 VLX with only 1,600 miles for $750? It was a disabled guy who had not ridden in 3 years and could not wrench on the bike to get it going. It was still $150 more than I paid for my 98 Savage. No way I would give $5,000 for a VLX600. I'd buy a used Sportster if I was going to shell out that kind of money. |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by Mr 650 on 08/10/05 at 01:28:00 bobo383 wrote:
Jeez cold blooded man, only $750, Did you like hang the poor guys wheel chair's front wheels over the stairwell?... man? |
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Title: Re: savage versus rebel Post by bobo383 on 08/10/05 at 04:41:21 After I took the motor and tires off, yeah... There's disabled to get the gov't money, and REALLY disabled. This was the former. |
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