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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Overheating damage?
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Message started by Richard Amirault on 07/25/05 at 07:22:58

Title: Overheating damage?
Post by Richard Amirault on 07/25/05 at 07:22:58

Other than it says something to the effect that it's not good for the bike .. the owners manual says nothing about the effects on the bike of overheating.

During this summer I've had a few days in heavy stop and go traffic .... let out the clutch .. no, not all the way .. stop .. wait ... let out the clutch .. no, not all the way .. stop .. wait (and so on) during 85 to 90 temps.

I could feel the heat coming off the big cyclinder. I've decided not to go that route any longer if at all possible (at least until it turns cooler) but, was wondering if I may have already damaged my bike.

Anyone know what might be affected by overheating the bike, and maybe that it might be the cause for the change in my exaust note (sharper than before) and more frequent backfires (louder than before)

Richard in Boston, MA

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by WD on 07/25/05 at 07:45:22

Biggest problem will be rapid oil degradation. Overheating can also "cook" the valves, eroding away the leading edges of the valve faces.

Is the top end noisier? Or just the exhaust note?

Change the oil, adjust the idle screw out, and find a less packed way to work.
-WD

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by bentwheel on 07/25/05 at 09:04:04

Hey Amirault, how did you make out with your handlebar alignment? You didn't follow up with the group to let us know if our advice was helpful/correct.

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by realdeal on 07/25/05 at 09:13:15

On this subject, Is there an overheat warning light? I see 2 indicators at the bottom of the speedo, but I'm not sure what they are for.

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by bentwheel on 07/25/05 at 09:17:12

There is no temperature warning indicator on the Savage. It's an air cooled big single, so is prone to running hot in high temperatures. It's just the nature of the beast.

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by realdeal on 07/25/05 at 09:58:45

Is there any way to tell if the engine is getting too hot? I mean, it seems to always be hot in my case. I can't tell the difference between regular hot and too hot.

I live in Baltimore, MD and do a lot of stop and go city driving. I'd hate to kill my engine by burning it up.

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by Savage_Rob on 07/25/05 at 10:22:00

Not sure whether you'd want to spend the cash on it but here's an Oil Temperature Gauge (http://www.accessoryinternational.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AI&Product_Code=AUGZ130000).

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by bentwheel on 07/25/05 at 10:36:33

When an engine gets too hot you may hear detonation. This is a pinging or knocking sound heard in the cumbustion chamber (cylinder head) under acceleration. It is normally caused by a tuning/ignition misque, but it could be a precursor to idling/slow running in high ambient temperatures.

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by Savage_Rob on 07/25/05 at 10:45:04

Personally, I assume that the engine is designed to withstand normal ambient temperatures in stop-and-go driving. For normal ambient temps, I include my normal highs here in the Dallas area of 100+ F. This assumes using a grade of oil to support it. I'm using 15w50 pure synthetic with no known problems. I've considered the oil temp gauge myself but couldn't justify the cost in my own mind since I believe the engine is stout enough to take it. If I were planning on doing stop-and-go in Death Valley, I'd probably buy one.

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by bentwheel on 07/25/05 at 11:01:17

I agree with you Savage_Rob. The Savage does not generally have a problem with overheating. I like your Death Valley comparison. That was sort of what I meant by high ambient temperatures. I'm thinking if you are in Death Valley this afternoon and your Savage is idling while you are smelling all the new flowers growing there this year, you may have a problem.

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by Paladin on 07/25/05 at 17:16:55

Clymer manual, page 35, chart shows 40W or xx-40W or xx-50W motor oil to be suitable for over 104 degrees ambient temperature.

I use Catrol GTX 20-50, chart show it good for 14 - 104+ degrees. I'm only good for 50-100. As usual, the Savage is far more capable than I am.

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by WD on 07/25/05 at 19:52:54

Easiest way to test for overheating: Is the pipe purple? Not yellow, not blue, purple. If it is, it has slightly overheated. Key word is slightly.

My 98 loved Castrol GTX 20W50 car oil year-round. I'm planning to up the weight in the Intruder as well. If you prefer a bike-spec oil, Castrol Actevo is good, so is Spectro, Torco, and MPZ.
-WD

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by babbalou on 07/26/05 at 18:59:58

I removed the 2 chrome trim pieces from the head 'cause I liked the way it looked but it might allow a little more airflow over the top of the head too. Still, I don't worry much about overheating the engine because there's lots of Screamin' Eagle Harleys out there running fine & those rear cylinders don't get a lot of cool air.

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by roughrider on 07/31/05 at 16:43:13

I experienced Severe heat this year in Kansas City. Over 100 degrees for about a week. I thought the cylinder was to hot too. Turned out that the payment underneath me was what was putting off the heat. These bikes are designed to handle it. Mine did! I travel about 38 miles each day stopping in heavy rush hour to and from work. I haven't noticed any problems with the heating up of the bike, just me! The motor will get louder as it heats up. This is normal for air cooled motors. Your motor will probably shut down if it gets to hot from just sitting still. Your only true airflow is when the bike is moving.

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by Mr 650 on 07/31/05 at 20:59:37

Sorry, pipe color has little to do w/ excessive head temps while stuck in summer traffic. A parts guy raving against synthetic oil vs. dyno juice is lacking evidence.
But when stuck in stop and go traffic w/ 10 more miles to go, synthetic oil will be on my piston skirt and valve guides, while you are baking black stuff on your ratbikes moving parts w/your dyno juice in similar conditions.
There is a reason after GM began installing turbos back in the 80s, they began specing/shipping w/ Mobil1 after the exceptional high heat in the turbos was killing the dyno juice and likewise cooking in the BEARINGS. We are talking about a vehicle that only diverted a small percentage of flow to the turbo on an otherwise water-cooled engine.
Now I will grant that the chemistry in both synthetics and dyno is better than ever. Dyno oil will do the job if one never abuses the bike and changes it more frequently.
If stuck in Dallas heat w/ your motor, ...well your bikes just may not warrant good oil.

WD wrote:

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by shawn_b on 07/31/05 at 22:38:24

i think the shaking of the motor helps keep it cool like bees flap there wing when the hive gets to hot

shawn

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by Mr 650 on 07/31/05 at 22:55:34

Could bee......
During August motion is your only friend, keep it moving. I have seen a couple of Electra Glides (w/ rider) pulled over while traffic is jammed in construction zones, tired of riding the clutch and holding the overheated behemouths up.
I have been trapped like that and rode the sidewalks & back alleys downtown vs. idling endlessly in 1st.
This was a year ago. after dark, and the heat coming up was all from my motor.

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by slavy on 08/01/05 at 10:18:43

In my expirience, the Savage is the most seizing street bike on the road. This is a bike that like a rule has an issue with the lubrication, because it boils the oil away.
This is an engineering flaw.
All the seizures I've seen have been at high speeds, because of extremely lean running.
I don't want to go into a discussion about the oils, because it will never end. The truth is that it doesn't matter what oil do You use, it allways deteriorates and if You want to have in Your bike what You put into it, You have to change the oil every 1000 miles. The synthetic oils keep the viscosity longer time, but they are more expensive, so for the same money You can change Your regular oil more frequently. The truth is:
#1 Proper jetting - lean / stock/ means hot
#2 Clean oil
#3 Comon sense - don't make the bike's life harder than what it is.

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by Hammy211 on 08/02/05 at 01:00:45

slavy wrote:

You have to change the oil every 1000 miles.

Seriously? There is no way I will ever change my oil that often. That would be as frequently as I put gas in my car. Is this what others actually do? I guess I will be a test as to how long a bike will last going 3k between changes b/c I intend to ride mine into the ground.

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by lancer on 08/02/05 at 07:34:10

I run Amsoil sythetic oil in my Savage and change the oil and filter at about 2500-3000 miles...not because the oil is not longer good but because it is getting dirty. If the Savage had a better filter then the oil would go much longer. It is the dirt in the oil that causes the wear on the engine parts...it is an abarasive that grinds on the bearing surfaces.
I have never heard anyone report that their Savage engine seized because of HEAT. I may have missed it somewhere but I do not remember any reports of that.

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by Savage_Rob on 08/02/05 at 08:00:25

I'm with Lancer on this. I'm running Maxum 4 Extra 15w50 full synthetic and only change it at about every 2000-2500 and only then because I've had the bike less than a year and am watching it closely. At the next change I'll install the magnetic drain plug and see if it picks up anything. So far, my oild has been clean and the engine runs great, even in 100+ F Texas summer heat. I will probably switch my pattern to 2000 in heat and 3000 otherwise.

Title: Re: Overheating damage?
Post by Ed_L. on 08/02/05 at 12:02:00

Every 1,000 miles seems a bit much for an oil change. I've been using 20-50w dino juice and change both the filter and oil somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000 miles and the oil looks black and used. If I was using a synthetic then I would change somewhere after 2,500 miles. I've blown up one too many car engines by trying to save a buck on an oil change. Once the engine gets damaged from low or old oil you are basicly scr-ewed. A couple quarts of oil is cheap compared to a overhaul. just my 2 cents, Ride Safe