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Message started by Paula71 on 07/23/05 at 13:48:47

Title: RESULTS R IN! Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Paula71 on 07/23/05 at 13:48:47

>:(Dang! like this is what you need in the middle of riding season! And on a weekend all the stealerships be closed and those who are available service is backed up for weeks! I am still under warranty so probably should let them fix it , but this royally bites! ???Any thoughts from you all so when I do take it in I understand their lingo? If I down shift and bring it back up a time or two it will finally hit third but it is pretty consistent not wanting to go to third on the first try. Thanks all.

Title: Re: Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Greg_650 on 07/23/05 at 20:51:21

Paula71 wrote:

Hi Paula. Me again :)

This is usually a mechanical issue...I would check the shifter linkage to see if the pedal is bent or if you need to have the "turnbuckle rod" adjusted. I doubt that it is serious. Might be that your foot and the pedal haven't been set for eachother.

Check it out....before you go to the dealer...

Title: Re: Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Paula71 on 07/24/05 at 07:59:37

Well the external mechanics seem to be in place. I have been riding this bike for 1400 miles and have had no problems until now. It will go into 4th and 5th no problem once I finally manage to hit 3rd. And the one time I tried with the bike not running it slipped into 3rd no problem. 3rd gear is the only problem :(

Title: Re: Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by WD on 07/24/05 at 11:20:48

Very common. Adjust the clutch cable and go up 1 weight on the oil. If you've been running 10W40, go to 15W40. It's hot out, so the oil should be a thicker grade anyway. The factory cables should stop stretching somewhere around 3500 miles. Wouldn't hurt to get a can of Cable Life and a lube injector block and service the cable as well.

10W40 is used to wring out maximum mileage. When I switched my Savage to 20W50, the mileage stayed the same, but the bike ran and shifted much smoother/easier. Just one of the tricks you pick up over the years.
-WD

Title: Re: Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Paula71 on 07/24/05 at 19:12:21

WD wrote:

I do understand all of what you say and I was just getting ready to change to heavier weight oil, just to see about the down shift issue. When this upshift to 3rd gear became a problem. If this is oil weight related would it only affect the one gear? That is the part that puzzles me. All other gears are fine? BTW , one reason I am here in the first place is for "the tricks" you all have picked up along the way. Thanks again. :D

Title: Re: Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Greg_650 on 07/24/05 at 20:48:42

Paula71 wrote:

Just think about what you said....why would oil weight affect only 3rd gear? Good point.

So what else could be possible? Have you sat in the driveway and looked at your shifter while you changed gears? You don't have to be moving.

Hey, advice here is free, but it's contingent on the idea that someone will learn something and do some troubleshooting, too.

Am I right?

Title: Re: Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Paladin on 07/24/05 at 21:18:57

Paula71 wrote:

.... If this is oil weight related would it only affect the one gear? That is the part that puzzles me. ....

Logically, if the problem is related to the viscosity of the oil whatever parts that affect each gear will have slightly different tolerances. One gear will, logically, fail first.

Title: Re: Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Greg_650 on 07/24/05 at 21:23:50

Paladin wrote:

Logically, if the problem is related to the viscosity of the oil whatever parts that affect each gear will have slightly different tolerances. One gear will, logically, fail first.

Paula hasn't even told us what she has found by her troubleshooting or adjusting, and you mention fail? Her bike has only 1400 miles on it. It's still under warranty too.

What logic is anyone using here? When Her bike was burning her jeans, oil became the suspect. Now it won't shift and we think it's oil again?

Come on guys. Next thing ya know, we'll be checking the oil in our tires.

Title: Re: Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Paula71 on 07/25/05 at 07:05:39

Paladin wrote:

Logically, if the problem is related to the viscosity of the oil whatever parts that affect each gear will have slightly different tolerances. One gear will, logically, fail first.

Thank you very much Paladin, that is what I wanted to know, wether it is the actual problem or not, I just wanted to know the answer. I am new to the mechancis of bikes and will never know if I do not ask questions, wether it is related to my problem or not.

Title: Re: Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by WD on 07/25/05 at 07:07:53

;D Of course, you do check the oil level in your tires, sort of. Sidewall or tread block cracks are caused by the oils outgassing from the tire. Courtesy of heat, ozone, etc. Same reason you get dry skin, lack of moisture in the chemical compounds forming it.

Back to the shifting issue. I've got a few scrap shifter drums at work. If I'm reading them right, 2-3 tends to have a longer throw than the other gears. Seems to also have the most "slop" in the machining. Even on the high dollar bikes.

I use 20W50 dino juice because the motor runs cooler, the clutch feels tighter, and the bike shifts more readily. I'd assume because 20W50 fills the "slop" in the shifter drum better than 10W40 does. I made the mistake of putting 10W40 full synthetic in the Intruder the last oil change. (Normally run blend, thought the bottle color had changed, oops) Bike is unhappy, wife is unhappy, I'm mad. Lifter ticking, missing shifts, running hot...worked beautifully before the last oil change. ???

Close as I can give to a "learned or reasoned" opinion.
-WD

Title: Re: Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Paula71 on 07/25/05 at 07:15:44

Greg_650 wrote:

Okay now wait a minute here, give me a chance to do trouble shooting and get back here before I get slammed would ya? :D Yes Greg I have done everything that you have said, checked the shifter - "turnbuckle rod" have sat on the bike with no movement and played with that too. Infact previous posts suggest just that.

Taking to the dealer in about 1 hour, so I will let you know what they find. As you know I am new to learning the mechanics here and if I have misunderstood any instructions or you think I have not followed them let me know I certaintly do want to try all the trouble shooting first that is the fun part when you are learning. But as you state it is under warranty, the service guy is also very surprised that a Savage/S40 would have shifting issues.

I find it very sad that my bike has given me fits for several weeks now and each time it is something more severe. It is not rider error , it is bike malfunction and with bike being so new and my riding vacation coming up this weekend I will let the dealer take over. Thanks again :)

Title: Re: Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by WD on 07/25/05 at 07:39:59

Paula, mine was an absolute clunker when I first got it. Bike got wet, bike wouldn't run. Adjust the slop out of the clutch cable every other ride. Both fuses kept popping at the same time. Front brake didn't work. Paint faded within two months (bad enough to NEED repainting). My first post on the Heise forum was about how bad the bike was. I planned to blow it up the day I paid it off.

I kept it. I fixed it. I flogged it. And then I gave it away. The kid flogs it. He loves it. Plans to continue with my start on turning it into a high bar Crocker single. 1930s muscle bike for those who don't know.
-WD

Title: Re: Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Paula71 on 07/25/05 at 07:53:24

WD wrote:

Let the flogging begin!! :D I adjust the sloppy clutch about every 10-15 days, front brake squealed fixed it for about 3 weeks, now it squeals and makes a horrible "honking or groaning" sound when slowing(the dealer is looking at that today too)Hopefully with pearl white paint fade will pass me by. Fuses are next!! :o Can't wait ;D
Maybe I can send her your way for a few months and you can whip her into shape for me! LOL ;DDo not get me wrong I love this bike and I love learning what makes it tick.

Title: Re: Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Paula71 on 07/25/05 at 12:01:43

Well she is with the service tech now. and on the way there 5th gear started giving us fits, too. I guess I never mentioned that the shifter will not move when this happens, it is just frozen in place except to downshift. It is not that the shifter will go up and nothing happens, it just is locked in place, like when you are in 5th and want another gear but you aint got one! :)
Any how, I certainly hope that my newbie status has caused me to overlook or not properly set an adjustment because if it is a true transmission problem I will be out of a bike for a minimum of 3-4 weeks. You know warranty work gets put on the shelf until things slow down. thanks all.

Title: Re: Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Greg_650 on 07/25/05 at 20:02:55

Paula71 wrote:

Instead of PMs you can use my offline address for more discussions on this if you need too. Feel free, and I'll be glad to.

I have a web site to build and little forum time now. So send questions to me direct if you want.

Title: Re: RESULTS R IN! Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Paula71 on 07/28/05 at 04:45:37

Okay service tech said not an adjustment problem after he road it long enough to heat it up and duplicate the problem. He was sure it was adjustment, too. That is normally the problem when these things happen he said. Once he felt it himself he calls and says " I got bad news your bike wont shift into 3rd when it is hot" !!! (yes I told you that ;))

Anyhow, because of warranty he had to call Suzuki to "open it up" thinking a bent shifter shaft or fork and spring problem? ( Did I say that right?) He found nothing obvious, but took it apart and wiped things off put back together. AND NOW WE SHIFT WONDERFULLY!!
His best guess is after the initial oil change possible some metal shavings were causing a problem, or dirt in the wrong place kept it from zeroing after 2nd gear.

Whatever, it is fixed, my riding vacation is still on for next week and warranty covered it!!

Nothing like learning as I go. You all have gave me so much great information and I plan on sticking around. Had I not been here first, I think I may have been lost in his service tech talk. Thank you, Thank you!! ;D

Title: Re: RESULTS R IN! Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Reelthing on 07/28/05 at 05:16:29

might be fun just for grins to order one of the magnet drain plugs and see what it can pull out of the oil for you

Title: Re: RESULTS R IN! Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Paladin on 07/28/05 at 07:34:33

Paula71 wrote:

..... He found nothing obvious, but took it apart and wiped things off put back together. AND NOW WE SHIFT WONDERFULLY!!

This is actually a common occurance with repair techs. We look at something that is not working, can't see why, poke at it, and it starts working. Why? Who knows? But I have had lots of trouble tickets closed as "CCWF -- Came Clear While Fumbling."

edit -- I still think it was something with the oil, since that would have been drained and replaced when he did his looksee.

Title: Re: Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Oklahoma_Mike on 07/28/05 at 07:45:08

Greg_650 wrote:

I would listen to WD. I was having a similar problem with my Savage it only affected ONE gear and the clutch would slip at full throttle. It was due an oil change so I put in 20W-50 and the shifting problem went away. The clutch engaged better and firmer with the new oil. No shifting problems thus far about 1200 miles after the change. 8)

Title: Re: RESULTS R IN! Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Reelthing on 07/28/05 at 09:52:50

Paladin wrote:

sussshhhh.... don't give away all our secrets - used to carry some beads my juju beads - waved them over ibm and amdahl mainframes quit a number of times to get them back up

Title: Re: RESULTS R IN! Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Oklahoma_Mike on 07/28/05 at 09:59:55

Reelthing wrote:

sussshhhh.... don't give away all our secrets - used to carry some beads my juju beads - waved them over ibm and amdahl mainframes quit a number of times to get them back up

Reel you killin me man !!!!! 8)

Title: Re: RESULTS R IN! Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Savage_Rob on 07/28/05 at 11:08:16

Paladin wrote:

Man, in telecom that is sooooooooo familiar... CWT (Cleared While Testing). Yeah, yeah. Some guy at a DSX was just one jack off.

Title: Re: RESULTS R IN! Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by bobo383 on 07/28/05 at 17:40:53

Savage_Rob wrote:

Some guy at a DSX was just one jack off.

I've been accused of that, too

Title: Re: RESULTS R IN! Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Paula71 on 07/29/05 at 04:13:26

Reelthing wrote:

might be fun just for grins to order one of the magnet drain plugs and see what it can pull out of the oil for you

I read about those plugs around here somewhere didn't I? That is a thought, might give it try :)

Title: Re: RESULTS R IN! Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Paula71 on 07/29/05 at 04:18:52

[quote author=Paladin link=board=RubberSideDown;num=1122151727;start=0#17 date=07/28/05 at 07:34:33]
This is actually a common occurance with repair techs. We look at something that is not working, can't see why, poke at it, and it starts working. Why? Who knows? But I have had lots of trouble tickets closed as "CCWF -- Came Clear While Fumbling."

edit -- I still think it was something with the oil, since that would have been drained and replaced when he did his looksee.[/quote

My hubby says in his Auto Teching he gets the same thing, too. Can't find a thing wrong, but it clears up during the diagnostics and such.
Back to the oil again, everything makes since to that direction. Hey, the temp around here dropped 20-25 degrees , too.

Title: Re: RESULTS R IN! Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Savage_Rob on 07/29/05 at 06:12:56

Paula71 wrote:

I read about those plugs around here somewhere didn't I? That is a thought, might give it try :)

http://www.magneticdrainplug.com/motorcycle.html

Title: Re: Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Mr 650 on 08/05/05 at 15:12:32

NEWBIES NOTICE: READ AND RESEARCH BEFORE STARTING A NEW TOPIC.
If you can't find your answer then post to an existing topic that is on or close to your topic and ask it there.
If you are a newbie do search all the info already posted here 1st. Your answer is likely here.

This forum is becoming flooded w/ repeat newbie questions and "new topics" that are not "NEW"! DAMIT! >:(

I have a beef w/ the number of new posters that have not read the forum.
Rob and others are often too kind in doing their homework, holding their hand, walking them to the correct topic, sp00n feeding them and wipe their little chins.

I agree with Greg it is getting difficult to cull through this crap, do to lazy or inconsiderate folks just wandering in and asking the SOS, not to mention it makes Susan’s job harder.

This is one of the best forums I have ever found.
I hate to see it turn into a bunch of repetitive useless threads, but we have all seen it before. Too bad!

If you "can't find it" it likely because there is too much BS piled on top of the all the goodies here that you are attempting (or are supposed to attempt) to find! This forum will move your question placed ANYWHERE including old topics to the top of the stack for all the others to see. It is becoming difficult to keep up as good, current topics get buried further under the BS new topics.
If you just wanna BS fine, we do that too, but BS does not deserve all these new topics.
Sorry if I am a bad guy for saying it, but was going to have to be said sooner or later anyway. ::)

Greg_650 wrote:

Title: Re: RESULTS R IN! Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Savage_Rob on 08/05/05 at 15:23:24

It has gotten a lot worse in the past few weeks, I have to admit. I agree sir. There is a wealth of information and discussions already had several times over. When searching, remember to set the number of days to something longer than the default of 7 days. I usually use 500 and it works for me.

Rob

Title: Re: Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Paula71 on 08/05/05 at 15:38:47

Mr 650 wrote:

NEWBIES NOTICE: READ AND RESEARCH BEFORE STARTING A NEW TOPIC.
If you can't find your answer then post to an existing topic that is on or close to your topic and ask it there.
If you are a newbie do search all the info already posted here 1st. Your answer is likely here.

This forum is becoming flooded w/ repeat newbie questions and "new topics" that are not "NEW"! DAMIT! >:(

I have a beef w/ the number of new posters that have not read the forum.
Rob and others are often too kind in doing their homework, holding their hand, walking them to the correct topic, sp00n feeding them and wipe their little chins.

I agree with Greg it is getting difficult to cull through this crap, do to lazy or inconsiderate folks just wandering in and asking the SOS, not to mention it makes Susan’s job harder.

This is one of the best forums I have ever found.
I hate to see it turn into a bunch of repetitive useless threads, but we have all seen it before. Too bad!
Sorry if I am a bad guy for saying it, but was going to have to be said sooner or later anyway.
If you "can't find it" it likely because there is too much BS piled on top of the all the goodies here that you are attempting (or are supposed to attempt) to find! This forum will move your question placed ANYWHERE including old topics to the top of the stack for all the others to see. It is becoming difficult to keep up as good, current topics get buried further under the BS new topics.
If you just wanna BS fine, we do that too, but BS does not deserve all these new topics. ::)

What the hay? Did I do something wrong by asking about my bikes individual problem? Sorry , will not be bothering you again.

The shifting problem was researched first, as you can tell I had a problem that WAS CONSIDERED NOT TYPICAL therefore no answer was found in other topics.

As far as the drain plug goes, I can and do search for things around here Rob was kind and placed the link with out me asking. Thank you Rob you have been helpful all along.

Title: Re: RESULTS R IN! Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Savage_Rob on 08/05/05 at 15:53:03

I don't think that was directed specifically at you Paula. I think it just brought the whole thing to mind. I don't even want to count how many times I've seen people asking about their stock Savage/S40 backfiring and I know that topic is covered in major repetition already. Complete instructions on rejetting, changing mufflers, etc. are pretty well covered. Occasionally something different comes along, like the differences in the 86-87 carbs but now a lot of that is covered too. Anyway, new stuff is cool. Clarifications are cool. Even something that is hard to search. However, there are a lot of recent posts that fit none of those. They are mostly the result of someone taking the easier route of asking someone else to find the information for them. That in itself begins to make it harder to find the therads with the real information. I believe that's one thing Mr. 650 was trying to counter in asking people to post other questions at the end of existing threads of the same/similar topic. Anyway, it's almost the weekend and I'm looking forward to riding some of it.

Ride Safely Folks ;)

Title: Re: RESULTS R IN! Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Paula71 on 08/05/05 at 16:11:43

Savage_Rob wrote:

I understand that maybe it was not directed at me, however over the computer you can not always tell, my fault sorry for getting excited. But I think too that maybe an alert to what Mr650 is saying should be a sticky at the top of Rubberside down or something? Newbies will not read this thread to specifically see Mr650s notice.
I like the idea of posting additional questions on to similar threads I just didnt think it would be noticed as quickly if the title thread is not what my question was.

Have some good riding this weekend! 8)

Title: Re: RESULTS R IN! Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/06/05 at 03:02:34

Whenever I start a new site I allways scan through the archives, and learn a lot. On a mature site like this one every thing You need to know is allready here.

Clive W :D

Title: Re: RESULTS R IN! Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Paula71 on 08/06/05 at 05:16:29

klx650sm2002 wrote:

Whenever I start a new site I allways scan through the archives, and learn a lot. On a mature site like this one every thing You need to know is allready here.

Clive W :D

Ditto here. Except the answer to my problem was not in the archives already. At least not under shift/shifting. It is now however ;)

Title: Re: RESULTS R IN! Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/06/05 at 07:33:26

Hey Paula

Yours is an orignal question, never seen anything like it on all three sites.

Clive W :D

Title: Re: RESULTS R IN! Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Greg_650 on 08/06/05 at 07:34:02

Mr_650 has a valid point, but I doubt that he really is aiming it at Paula (even though she's caught in the net, anyway)

I doubt that this section will ever be so organized that threads will be continued, rather than new topics created. Just looking down the current "Page 1", I do not see one totally new topic...we have the seat topics, the pipe topics, and carb topics, all worded differently of course, but exactly the same subjects as before....and the same repairs, corrections, and fix its will probably be recommended by the same people that discussed it before....

Considering that just about every aspect of the bike has been discussed, SuzukiSavage.com could stand alone just as a reference site. John could turn off the posting features, and just leave it for people to "read only".....but then the membership would decline, and the site would fizzle away....

The real reason this site has done so well, is due to the idea that the total confusion caused by all of the repeat topics is a mirror of our human condition anyway. How often do we need to know the correct spelling of a word, but never actually open a real dictionary to look it up? We either use a spell checker or just simply ask someone...as in, starting a "repeat topic" :) Besides, we are lazy, wanting the fastest and quickest solution to everything, and we have egos that make us think that our question is more important and accurate than someone else's similar question.

Humans aren't happy unless we can turn order into chaos, so trying to organize this site would probably be the end of it. People would just go somewhere else and ask someone else.

Title: Re: RESULTS R IN! Will not shift into 3rd!
Post by Mikey Teutul on 08/07/05 at 10:35:10

Hey this thread was not entitled "NEWBIES NOTICE: READ AND RESEARCH BEFORE STARTING A NEW TOPIC" so what is Mr_650 doing cluttering it up with all this *BS* about newbies asking to many questions for? >:( This is why it is so heard to find answers on here. My S40 is having the same problem as Paula's only with 2nd gear and I've had to sift through all this wining about newbies asking questions just incase there was more good advice. Next time start a new thread if you want to talk about something off topic (I bet Mr_650 really rides a Sportster anyway).