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Message started by ethan on 07/13/05 at 18:57:22

Title: push start question
Post by ethan on 07/13/05 at 18:57:22

OK, so I left my key on last night. My gf's truck is in the shop, so she is using mine. The bike is my only tranportation and the battery is dead. I do not have a battery charger and no time to go get one.

I tried to push start it.
I have it in 2nd or 3rd.
It seems to get a very little puff out when I push it slowly then it dies and then the tires lock up.
If I push it faster it just skids.

Any suggestions?

Title: Re: push start question
Post by Paladin on 07/13/05 at 19:08:12

Been there, done that.

You can pull the battery partly out and jump start it from a car battery with automotive jumper cables.

Title: Re: push start question
Post by sluggo on 07/13/05 at 19:25:22

the key is to get the machine in 3rd or 4th, then roll it backwards till it wont roll any more, then push forward pop clutch, don't forget kill switch.

i always leave my light on in the middle of nowhere. nobody to jump me.

Title: Re: push start question
Post by Reelthing on 07/13/05 at 19:29:25

if you can't get a jump - try 4th or 5th and push the start switch at the same time as jump on it and pop the clutch - maybe you have enough battery left to open the valves

*sluggos sounds like the hand of much experence at this - good advice *

Title: Re: push start question
Post by ethan on 07/13/05 at 21:10:43

thanks everyone.
i got it. that totally sucked. not only was it hard to pop, but it was cold. so i had to try more times than i can count until i was about to give up and it started almost starting.
now i just have to hope it will hold a charge until morning. so i dont have to do it again just to get to work.

I tried to jump it from a car battery. The info i got way to not turn the car on. this did not work.

Title: Re: push start question
Post by diesel on 07/13/05 at 21:34:52

ethan: you didn't have solid connections to battery, 12 volts is 12 volts, that WILL work. and yes, DO NOT have jumper vehicle running. diesel

Title: Re: push start question
Post by WD on 07/13/05 at 22:31:56

I jump start bikes all the time. Use a LONG insulated screwdriver in the positive screw. Attach the cable to that. Attach the negative lead to the engine (anywhere other than the starter housing. Works every time if the bike has a good starter relay.

I've never manged to pop start the Savage. >:(
-WD

Title: Re: push start question
Post by ethan on 07/14/05 at 11:52:46

battery doesnt hold a charge. total bummer.
luckily gf's truck is done and now we just need to pick it up.
looks like i will be working on the bike this weekend.

good tip with the screw driver. i will try that next time.

Title: Re: push start question
Post by bobo383 on 07/14/05 at 20:27:37

I've pull-started the Savage with my Honda 200x 3-wheeler before. Got to put the Savage in 4th or 3rd to get things rotating without sliding the rear tire.

Title: Re: push start question
Post by Greg_650 on 07/15/05 at 06:43:37

sluggo wrote:

Hmmm...

I know that you do this to find TDC, but it's not a good idea to push it backwards, because of the starter clutch. We talked about that in another topic.

I have popped mine in 2nd using the assistance of gravity and a slight down hill grade.

Title: Re: push start question
Post by dano on 07/16/05 at 20:43:52

I have clutch started my savage every time IF it has been running recently. One time I tried it cold about 25 times (iI am not kidding - probably more but thats just embarassing) and it would not budge. I guess cannot choke and clutch start together. Anyway, after that incedent, I bought one of those battery keeper upper thing-a-ma-bobs.

Title: Re: push start question
Post by Greg_650 on 07/16/05 at 21:52:11

dano wrote:

You are right. A cold thumper can be a bear, but luckily ours is a little light on the compression ratio compared to some.
:D

Title: Re: push start question
Post by Hammy211 on 07/17/05 at 08:34:12

I've been push starting mine for the last week. Never takes more than two tries. Keys are 2nd gear. Pull the bike back. Grippy surface with a slight downhill. Drop down on the bike when you pop the clutch. I'm just a little dude of about 150 so if I can do it you can to.

What was the discussion about it being bad to pull the bike back?

Title: Re: push start question
Post by Greg_650 on 07/18/05 at 13:28:57

Hammy211 wrote:

I'm over 200, so that should make it easier once I manage a graceful "drop down on the bike part" :)

It involves the starter gears, as we are discussing in "New Starter Design"....

Title: Re: push start question
Post by doppelganger on 07/29/05 at 21:47:36

I had my 1st experience with doing a push start today. I was going to post a thread with some questions, but I'll just piggyback on this one. :)

I turned the key the wrong way this morning, leaving the lights on, and when I came out after work, the battery had died. I was afraid I would have to call the Suzuki dealer to come rescue me, because I wasn't sure exactly how to jump start it. (I'm still not sure how to jump start it; I'm not even sure where the terminals are.)

I first tried push starting it by putting it in 1st gear with the clutch in, getting up as much speed as I could, then letting out the clutch. All I did was skid to a stop, with no sound at all from the engine.

Then I tried starting in neutral, getting up as much speed as I could, and popping it into 1st without using the clutch (although I may have used the clutch out of habit; I don't remember). This worked. I was actually rather surprised, because I've never push started anything in my life.

So, now I have a few questions....

Did I just get lucky that it started on my 2nd attempt? If I ever have to do this again, should I use the same technique, or one of the techniques mentioned in the previous posts?

How long does it take to recharge the battery? My ride home is about 10 minutes, and I let it run a few minutes longer after I got home, so it probably ran about 15 minutes. I haven't tried restarting it yet, but I'm just wondering if that is sufficient time for it to recharge.

I've tried in the past to check the solution level of the battery, but I can't see anything. The battery is inside a chrome box, with a cutout exposing some white plastic with two red lines. I ought to be able to see the solution level somewhere between those two lines, but it seems like the plastic is too opaque, because I can't see anything. Does anyone else have this problem?

Title: Re: push start question
Post by bobo383 on 07/29/05 at 22:27:55

Push starting is alot easier if you pop the clutch in 2nd or 3rd. 1st will just slide the rear tire, as you found out before you got lucky and it worked.

10-15 minutes of running should recharge the battery just fine, as long as the battery is still good. If the bike fires up, don't worry about anything further.

However if you must worry further...

If you can't see the water level through the plastic case, through the holes in the chrome cover, then you will need to remove the battery from the chrome box and look in the top holes. I really doubt you are low on electrolyte, but you never know till you look.

Your key opens the chrome toolbox cover, and you can see the phillips head screws for the rest.

When disconnecting the battery terminals (yes, you have to to get the battery out), remove the black negative (-) lead first. That way no matter what you touch while removing the red positive (+) wire, you won't make a spark.

Once the batt is out, you will have to unscrew the little plastic plugs on the top and eyeball the water level. They are yellow in this pic:
http://www.batterymart.com/graphics/00000001/225/MAR-YB16AL-A2.jpg

Title: Re: push start question
Post by dano on 07/30/05 at 07:27:35

I tried the screwdriver thing and it worked great! Thanks
Danny

Title: Re: push start question
Post by Mr 650 on 07/31/05 at 17:41:42

I suppose a set of bike jumpers should be made and thrown into my bags. I nice flexible #14 or #16 (18 might be too small?) should do the job, 6' to 10' with some good aligator clips, not too big so you don't have to remove the covers, but can still get a bite on the battery post. Sacraficing guage for portability means I will carry them vs. auto jumpers that I won't.

Title: Re: push start question
Post by dichotomous on 03/06/06 at 17:53:13

so the negative terminal is on the toolbox side when you pull it off? I am tempted to have the dealer just come over and fix it since they dropped it off with a dead battery. I still have never seen this thing yet run, but am told it runs beautifully

Title: Re: push start question
Post by Brewbrother on 03/06/06 at 18:44:51

dichotomous wrote:

I'd call for the owner of the stealership and ask him why your brand new bike not running is your problem. Of course I am a WCP. Your mileage may vary.

Title: Re: push start question
Post by Banger on 03/07/06 at 04:37:44

Okay, I had this trouble back in the summer and never had difficulties getting her started in first gear after a good push down a fairly steep hill. Even if it was a cold engine.

I pushed her up this short, steep hill at our apartment complex to push start because I, too had turned the key the wrong way the day before. Backed it up to the very corner of the parking lot while in neutral and pushed with my legs at least halfway down the hill. The more speed I was carrying, the better.

I clutched and downshifted into first. I heard the trademark whine of my Zook, which I usually hear it make when I pull up to stop lights and shift to first at anything above 12-15 miles an hour. Slowly ease out the clutch, and the cylinder springs to life.

First time only got a grumble from it, but the second time (and every successive day that week) I got it on the first try. Once the cylinder started to catch, I'd let the clutch out the rest of the way and it would usually fire up. At that point, almost immediately, I'd pull the clutch again, brake to a stop, and give it some throttle to keep it alive since it was cold.

It's a combination, but starts in first gear while cold can be done without locking the rear tire. Do not "pop" the clutch. I think that's key. If you do, you're just asking for trouble. Engage the clutch like you would any other time, pulling away from a stop or traffic light, then as soon as it fires up, yank the clutch back in and give it some gas.

A brief word about charging: Many motorcycles (not sure if the Savage fits the bill, though) only charge the battery if your engine speed is above a given RPM. For instance, the old Honda CB500T didn't charge the battery unless the engine was turning 2,000 RPM or better. I'd suspect the Savage is the same, but I'm not sure as I've never seen documentation on it. Regardless, if your battery has died, it wouldn't hurt to take her out for a 50-70 mph ride on your nearest stretch of highway. It turned out my battery wouldn't hold a charge after being drained, but it was a (n)EverStart. I replaced it with the factory battery because the terminals on the EverStart didn't work well with the battery box. No problems since.

I now always remember to make sure that key's OFF instead of in P!

Regards,
Banger
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