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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Valve Adjust? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1117665219 Message started by vroom1776 on 06/01/05 at 15:33:39 |
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Title: Valve Adjust? Post by vroom1776 on 06/01/05 at 15:33:39 Hey folks, I don't think the valves have ever been adjsuted on my '97. The service amnual says to measure the clearance and adjsut with a screw driver if necessary. What should I measure, and what do I adjust n(witha screw driver?????)? thanks, ks PS didn't see any of this in the technical section... |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by SavageDude on 06/01/05 at 19:20:03 Hey vroom1176; I just did mine. You need to make sure that the piston is TDC so all the valves(exhaust & intake) relax. You should be able to slide the feller gage(0.08-0.13mm) in to each of them snuggly. If they need to be adjusted, loosen the hex nut on it with the flat head screw driver on top of it then adjust with the screw diriver until it snuggle fit over the feeler gage. I don't know what kind of service manual you have, but mine have very good pictures to show you how. If you need it badly, I can scan mine and send it to you. Good luck; SavageDude |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by vroom1776 on 06/02/05 at 09:29:37 thanks! I've got the Suzuki manual, which also has incorrect jet sizes! Sheeesh! |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Reelthing on 06/02/05 at 13:16:51 What jet size does it list ? - I have most service manuals - I do not see any errors on the jets - I do see an error on the 87 wiring diagram where the neutral light is labeled as a oil level indicator light |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by vroom1776 on 06/02/05 at 14:22:51 I think it called for a 150 main and 47.5 pilot. I can look if you are interested. Ray, at Ray's motorcycle repair (an excellent business), yanked out his microfiche slides and told me I had the stock jets despite what my Suzuki service manual said ('97 savage, btw). ks |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Reelthing on 06/02/05 at 15:03:15 Was just curious - the 47.5 is the correct pilot jet for older US and perhaps current Ca bikes/Eu bikes - wonder if you have a CA/Eu service manual? (do not if there was a ca/Eu only - but maybe) |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by vroom1776 on 06/02/05 at 15:53:09 I think there are parts listed as "California only"... |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Reelthing on 06/02/05 at 16:33:48 CA - Canada in this case I believe |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/03/05 at 05:51:49 vroom1776 wrote:
Is Ray a psychic? How does he know from looking at a microfiche what is inside your carb? Is that some kind of new x-ray? |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/03/05 at 05:55:54 vroom1776 wrote:
You don't know the what or the how when it comes to ADJUSTing the valves? My advice would be to close your manual and ride your bike to the shop and let them do it. Maybe they will let you watch so that you can learn. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Savage_Rob on 06/03/05 at 06:13:38 LOL! Greg is probably right and his advice is definitely the safest. However, if you're an adventurous amateur like me and want to play anyway (or better yet, just for informational purposes), here's a decent explanation at Dan's Motorcycle Valve Adjustment (http://www.dansmc.com/valveclearence.htm). The wrench and screwdriver will probably work but with the limited space, I thought I'd prefer the specialized tools like the Motion Pro Tappet Tool Set (http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/product~pf_id~3279994~dept_id~1215886.asp). Oh, and the feeler gauges (http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/product~pf_id~3279845~dept_id~1215886.asp) and timing plug wrench (http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/product~pf_id~3279841~dept_id~1215886.asp) make the job easier. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by vroom1776 on 06/03/05 at 08:07:26 " Is Ray a psychic? How does he know from looking at a microfiche what is inside your carb? Is that some kind of new x-ray?" Uh, I had my needles in my hand, and Ray looked at them. " You don't know the what or the how when it comes to ADJUSTing the valves? My advice would be to close your manual and ride your bike to the shop and let them do it. Maybe they will let you watch so that you can learn." I have every intention of adjusting my own valves. I (presently) own three bikes, and don't have the money to pay for Ray (or a stealership) to work on my bike every time something goes bad or needs a little love. "Dan's Motorcycle Valve Adjustment" Thanks for the link! |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by WD on 06/03/05 at 08:39:07 Set them on the loose side of the specs. By the tappet tools. I have an OLD Honda set that works great for most Japanese and European bikes. Exhaust valves are a piece of cake, but to do the intake side, you'll need to pull the tank. And, buy an angled feeler gauge, much easier to deal with than a straight gauge. -WD |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Savage_Rob on 06/03/05 at 09:20:14 I modified the link in my post above to use BikeBandit as they were slightly cheaper and they also carry the angled feeler gauges and the timing plug wrench (if you want one - I do). |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/03/05 at 09:45:36 Here's my version of the timing plug tool, which I made after (years of using a bad practice) I finally punched a hole in a friend's timing plug cover with a screwdriver and hammer. This one was made with scraps laying around the garage, but I like the one Rob has better ::) http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/Tool01web.jpg |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by vroom1776 on 06/03/05 at 10:21:37 New tools to buy! Cool! |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Savage_Rob on 06/03/05 at 10:26:54 Yeah, I have the tappet wrenches and feeler gauges but am awaiting delivery of the wrench. I ordered one yesterday. Oh yeah, when I ordered the feeler gauges from BikeBandit, they backordered it and then sent a single gauge instead of the set of 6. Don't use the email address for customer care - use their email tool on their site. Once I actually got their attention, they fixed the error quickly. They didn't want to bother with getting the 1 extra gauge back either - not that it'd be worth the shipping for a $4 item. Just an FYI. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/03/05 at 12:49:15 Angled feeler gauges? D@mn, you guys got it too easy. I keep forgetting and so when I need to do this, I end up doing it the hard way with straight ones. The range is .003"-.005" and I always snug the rocker with a .005" feeler, and remove. Then when I completely tighten the 10 MM nut it just about always closes up to .004"....and middle works for me. http://home.comcast.net/~gmdinusa/ValveAdjust01web1000.jpg |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by klx650sm2002 on 06/04/05 at 02:00:13 Like my SR500 but with twice the number of valves. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Kropatchek on 06/04/05 at 03:02:11 Greg_650 wrote:
Nice picture But do you remove the engine to set the valve clearence? Greetz Kropatchek |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/04/05 at 05:55:54 Kropatchek wrote:
Oh, did I forget to mention that? It isn't mentioned in the manual either. Only remove the engine if you want to take really clear pictures. Otherwise, it is much easier to adjust the valves with the engine installed :o |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Savage_Rob on 06/08/05 at 18:23:50 Savage_Rob wrote:
Okay, evaluation time... While the tappet toolset might be fun on some other engines (or this one if it's out of the frame), I couldn't seem to get it into where it was needed. An open end wrench and an offset screwdriver were what I used. The feeler gauges worked fine, though I'm glad I had two of each size because I had to bend the handles slightly to get them into place. The timing cover wrench is a good investment. TDC was at about 3 o'clock on mine and I'd guess that's probably standard. I'm pretty sure this was the first time the valves were adjusted and they were TIGHT - I mean no gap at all. It took between 3/4 and 1 full turn out to open a gap. I set them snug on .005 and once tightened, they were at .003. Just my experiences this time. I hope this helps someone else. If any of this sounds horribly wrong to anyone, let me know. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Reelthing on 06/08/05 at 20:23:02 So if they were dang near closed up you had no clicking to worry with - so was it missing or anything after it got hot before the adjust? |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Savage_Rob on 06/08/05 at 20:41:23 No, I was retorquing the head cover bolts at TDC and just figured it was time to adjust 'em while I was in there. I must admit the instructions in the Clymer are a little odd - at least to me. I mean, I see the timing mark and can align it easily enough for TDC - now whether that is TDCC I don't know. The Clymer says to set it at the mark and then check that all rockers have free play. Then it goes on to say that if they don't, you should rotate the engine another 180 degrees and check again for free play and to be sure it's on the timing mark again too. NOW, if it was on the timing mark and I rotate it 180 degrees, it darn sure won't be on the timing mark again. I'll play with it some more tomorrow and won't crank it until I'm sure I've done it properly but if someone could clarify how to achieve TDCC, it'd be helpful. I guess I could always pull the plug and insert a dowel to see when the piston rises. Nah, the piston has to rise on the exhaust stroke too. Hmmm... I'll get it one way or another. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by SavageDude on 06/08/05 at 20:52:41 I guess nobody here works on airplane huh?!# How about try do adjust/remove/replace a component by feel only >:( I think if you don't have the right tools or the patient, then cough up the mula for the mechanic and let him do it right and save the grief ;D SavageDude |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Savage_Rob on 06/08/05 at 21:00:44 SavageDude wrote:
That's no fun and I don't learn anything. I guess I'll just watch the valves as I turn the engine and see what stroke it's on. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by SavageDude on 06/08/05 at 21:09:42 That's no fun and I don't learn anything. Savage_Rob So true, so true :D Like you said, I watch the valves very closely everytime that 3 o'clock mark line up, if none of them move. I am in TDDC(spelling ???) SavageDude |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/09/05 at 05:40:00 Savage_Rob wrote:
Confusing? Maybe. There are 2 TDC positions. One on the exhaust stroke (with the exhaust valves open) and one on the compression stroke with all valves closed. That is where you want to be. If you find it easier, you can remove the plug to rotate the engine. To feel when the valves are free is a matter of touch, though. Very small movement. Just watch the valves as you go through a couple revolutions and you'll see where the position is.... |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Savage_Rob on 06/09/05 at 06:28:38 Will do, thanks. After I thought about it, I figured I could see them move and determine when it was on the compression stroke. Exhaust forward and intake aft, correct? |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Kropatchek on 06/09/05 at 15:29:17 Savage_Rob wrote:
That's right. Did you turn the engine anti clockwise when looking from the left side or did you follow Clymer's instructions ? Greetz Kropatchek ;D And yes I worked on airplanes and did my share of replacing components and other stuff by feel. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Savage_Rob on 06/09/05 at 20:07:21 Sitting on my canvas folding camp stool on the left/port side of the bike, I only turned clockwise. I watched the valves closely tonight and could easily tell intake and exhaust but couldn't tell much else by sight alone. So I just turned it to TDC several times and each time felt the rockers/tappets until one time at TDC all four had a touch of play. At that point I adjusted all four and tightened them so that all are between .003 and .004 when tight. I put everything back together and she purrs. Oh yeah, I didn't think my header gasket all that worn but I replaced it anyway and like magic, the last of my backfires disappeared. If I don't ride her to work tomorrow, I'll find some kind of mount/mountain to ride to on Sunday. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/10/05 at 07:23:54 Savage_Rob wrote:
Warning. "Warning Will Robinson"!!! I hate to say it, but DO NOT turn the engine clockwise from that position on the port side (yes, I was a sailor). In fact, never turn the engine in a direction opposite the direction of operating rotation. Rule of thumb...rotation direction on all bike engines (except flat horizontal ones) is always the same direction as the tire rotation. See the arrows on the tire side walls? Turn the engine that way only...it doesn't matter which side you're on. Reason #1 - the engine turns counter-clockwise from the left side... Reason #2 - that timing bolt on the rotor is left hand thread....that is a loosening direction. Reason #3 - turning that way is rotating the cam chain backwards which puts any cam chain slack in the wrong direction through the gears and the tensioner, and the valves aren't timed correctly (in reverse)... Reason #4 - you are rotating the starter clutch in the wrong direction...which is turning the starter gears against the starter....the clutch is engaged in that direction. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/10/05 at 07:28:48 Savage_Rob wrote:
On the other hand....that is a good point about a sealed header and backfires. By the way...you are getting the hang of this mechanicing stuff. Keep it up. ;D |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Kropatchek on 06/10/05 at 07:37:24 Greg_650 wrote:
Thanks Greg, I was just figuring out how to explain the issue of rotation. Think we discussed this way back. Greetz Kropatchek ;D |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Savage_Rob on 06/10/05 at 08:00:33 I thought it was odd to rotate opposite normal engine rotation but I'm an amateur so I did as the manual stated. I hope I didn't do any damage. Clockwise was the direction the Clymer specified. I rode her in today and she seems okay so far. Do I now need to readjust the valves rotating the other direction? |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/10/05 at 08:16:14 Savage_Rob wrote:
Just another point. I think that my SSM specifically states not to rotate it that way, but I knew it anyway from experience. No telling the interpretation in the Clymer. They could have been referencing it from the starboard side instead of port, too. On the clutch side that would be correct. In this case, it is a matter of having the experience to know to "read between the lines". If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Sounds like it is working fine so just leave it alone. I was only using your post as a lesson for everyone. You are using your manual and working on your bike. That is commendable. In time, the whole engine will be a simple spinning animation in your head and these details will be second nature. Keep it up :o |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/10/05 at 08:19:22 By the way, the same rules apply in a car engine too, but there it doesn't involve the starter because automotive engines use a starter solenoid to engage the starter. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Savage_Rob on 06/10/05 at 08:21:09 Greg_650 wrote:
I'll check it again but I'm pretty sure it specified the left side because they went through removing the timing cap there first. They even show a picture of the wrench I got for it. Mine is Motion Pro and they state Honda makes one. Anyway, good stuff to remember and I guess I'll leave it alone then. I was just concerned because you pointed out that the valves aren't time properly when turning it in reverse. Thanks for the advice. As always, it's much appreciated. Note: I've also decided to order the factory manual. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/10/05 at 08:33:15 Savage_Rob wrote:
Free play is free play, and I assume that you found the point where the valves were completely closed and there was actual tappet freeplay before you started. At this point, the worst that could have been done is to make the valves too loose. Really. The worst you could have done is to ADD another .003"-.004" to what existed...just think about it and you'll see what I mean. No way to make them too tight if the valve was slightly open when you started. Besides, if you did, you'll also HEAR the freeplay, and you used the word "Purr" before 8) |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Savage_Rob on 06/10/05 at 08:52:50 Greg_650 wrote:
They were too loose from the way I'd set them the night before when they were not at TDCC but I did not run her because I was not satisfied at all that I'd done it correctly. And yes, she did purr last night and this morning on the way to work - no clatter that I could discern. Oh, and I guess I spoke a little early on the backfires. I still have a few. I may still have a slight exhaust leak and I know my carb is not quite yet where I want it (stuck idle mixture screw and such). I'll get her there though. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Reelthing on 06/10/05 at 08:53:13 thanks for the posts folks - setting the valves this weekend on the '02 - either before or after the ride - anyway - I might not have even thought about the direction and I know better - but working on some of these 2-strokes may have corrupted my brains - several of the older golf carts to not have a reverse - you flip a and start the engine backwards if you want to go backwards - dangest thing when I first start fooling with them - but there's no valve train to worry about |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Mr 650 on 06/11/05 at 22:57:51 Rob (and all the other Savage rocker-heads), The Savage cam is tame. If your rockers were loose and you were on the mark, you are OK. The Savage's OHC cover makes it a little trickier to watch. On a V-8 pushrod motor where you can see both rockers this is the easy way, but this works for any conventional 4-stroke: Forget the timing mark, just bump the motor. Adjust the Intake valve lash when the EXHAUST valve begins to open, this will assure that the intake valve is on the heel of the intake lobe. Adjust the Exhaust valve when the INTAKE valve has just closed so the exhaust is on its base circle. When I say bump it, just tap the starter so you get no crank speed. If you think you bumped it too far or the crank coasted past where it should be, just bump the starter a few more times, to roll the crank around twice(=1 time for the cam) and bring the opposite rocker to the right position and make sure you are able to rattle the rocker you are adjusting up and down a little before you set the lash. Oh yeah, since this is a thumper you may need to pull the spark plug to get the crank to stop in the right position. easy huh ;) Savage_Rob wrote:
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/12/05 at 06:28:24 Mr 650 wrote:
Well, in truth, if you turn the crank, find free play on the rocker...no matter what position...it would work. You're cheating, though....you've jumped classes from Mechanical Concepts 101 to Shade Tree Methods 301 ;D |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by defrag on 06/21/05 at 19:39:56 wheres the timing plug at? can you use normal tools to remove it? |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by WD on 06/21/05 at 22:38:07 Left side cover of the engine, it is the little slotted circle. If by normal tools you mean a screwdriver, not really. A washer that fits the slot works better, just stick a long spike or hefty screwdriver through the washer to get the needed leverage (very little, timing plugs are SOFT!!!). I despise the Virago series (horrible electrical systems), but at least Yamaha was smart enough to use a hex head on the plug instead of a slot. And the things STILL shatter if you look at them wrong. Be patient, judiciously apply penetrating oil if needed, have a couple cups of coffee, and go for it. If you feel the slightest amount of resistance from the plug, STOP. Regroup, apply oil, let it sit, and then try again. Picking a broken timing plug out of an engine case is NO fun. I broke 3 this week on Viragoes and Maxims. -WD |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Savage_Rob on 06/22/05 at 06:33:01 Mine was VERY tight. I am glad I bought the special tool for it. It was $20 well-spent and made the job SO much easier. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by defrag on 06/22/05 at 14:04:44 defrag wrote:
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by defrag on 06/22/05 at 18:01:31 this seems like a safer way to get TDC if you dont want to mess with the timing plug, would it work? by top gear i assume he means 4th or 5th (been a while since ive drove the bike, dont even remember its top gear) "If you can't get a wrench on the flywheel nut don't worry. You can turn the engine over by jacking the rear wheel off the ground and putting the transmission in top gear. Now simply turn the rear wheel to turn the engine. If you can't find the flywheel marks look at the intake valve as you turn the engine over in the forward direction. When it goes down and then up, take a long thin screw driver and stick it down the spark plug hole. Continue to turn the engine over until the piston touches the tip of the screw driver. Continue to turn the engine. Be careful not to jam or bind the screw driver in the spark plug hole. The piston will push the screw driver up. When it stops and starts to go down, that is TDC of the compression stroke. This will work on all piston engines" |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Savage_Rob on 06/22/05 at 18:07:48 Even so, I'd use a wooden dowel instead of a screwdriver... just being paranoid about messing something up, I guess. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by defrag on 06/22/05 at 20:36:35 good point, ill try this tommorow and let you know how it works out. i picked up the feeler guages at autoparts store for about $5 |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by defrag on 06/23/05 at 18:09:04 just got done adjusting and fired her up. it did run but its rattling like a mofo now and cuts out whenever i apply throttle, i adjusted to .003mm or so i thought ??? it sounds like really really bad lifter tick. im starting to think that i did this wrong and actually adjusted them too much or at the wrong level? i tested TDC by removing the spark plug and spinning the rear wheel until the piston hit its highest point, i had a long stick in there and just watched when it was at its highest point. my batt just died as well so im charging that up again. oh well, guess ill be retrying that one this weekend, anyone know where i went wrong? edit: shoot me in the face, did i just adjust them to .003 MM when i just have done .003 Inch? was your feeler gauge very very thin, almost like a steel wafer and very flexible? re-edit: 0.13MM=.005 INCH DOOOOOOOH! lol i assumed we were speaking MM since the 2nd post said something about that. well i guess that explains everything. im an idiot :P |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/23/05 at 19:33:56 Not gonna beat on you, but I am gonna give some advice.... One thing that I always try to avoid with beginners is the practice of shortcuts. Sorry, but you know the phrase, "to talk the talk, you must walk the walk" (or something like that). Shortcuts are not for beginners. You have to know how and why you do something before you try to do it your own way. I read about the idea of rotating the wheel with a pencil feeler, as a way to avoid opening the timing cover. I understood exactly what that meant, but even after 30+ years of wrenching I wouldn't do that. It isn't accurate enough...or it leaves the possibility for error. A valve job is something that you want done right the first time. It must also be done for many worry free miles, good performance, and long engine life. How about the idea that the piston is at TDC 2 times in one complete cycle, but the valves are doing different things either time? Also you gotta realize that the crankshaft is at the top of it's rotation, so therefore a few degrees of movement cannot be accurately detected based on piston travel (without a dial indicator). The movement of the crank is radial and the piston is linear. Also, the piston is at TDC for both the Compression stroke and the middle of the "Exhaust-Intake" stroke. There is just a matter of a few degrees difference between the closing of the exhaust and the opening of the intake valves. What if you had stopped it when one rocker was actually in movement up or down? Then when you loosened the adjusters and reset the gap, you'd actually turn the adjuster intil the valve closed AND then add a .003-.005 inch to that amount. Think that might make a really sloppy gap? Okay? This isn't intended as a blast of stuff, but I am right. Before you dive back in there with the same technique, change your mind and go by the book...get a manual and the correct tools. You'll learn it the correct way, and most likely not have any problems. By the way, in the Technical Corner I have a picture of an ugly, crude, and homemade tool. It took me about 30 minutes with just a few scraps of aluminum, a couple bolts, a drill, and a belt sander. I didn't have a tool and I didn't want to spend the money. It ain't fancy, but I made it with what I had. Believe it or not, I think that picture is in the post about the Savage Electrical system...I'll double check... Good luck. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/23/05 at 19:40:08 Okay, I found it. My post has gone all the way to next to last in the Technical Corner...been there a while and not a very popular subject, I guess ::) Anyway, here is the tool picture in the topic "Mysterious Electrical section"....what can I say? It works on a Savage. http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/Tool01web.jpg |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by defrag on 06/23/05 at 20:30:36 thanks for the advice, ill work on getting something together to do it right this weekend :) |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/24/05 at 06:26:23 If you need any help, just ask....not a problem. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by defrag on 06/24/05 at 16:20:29 Greg_650 wrote:
im starting to understand the 2 TDC problem, definetly couldnt tell that by rotating a wheel. im going to start workin on her again tommorow, i actually think i did gap them the correct distance after all, but like you said probably one side was open and one side was closed, or neither was in the right place at all. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Savage_Rob on 06/24/05 at 17:12:05 Yeah, the best way for me to finally get it right was to use the timing marks to know when I was approaching TDC and watch the rockers closely, then feel them for that "touch" of play. Once I found all four rockers with a tiny gap and the mark at TDC, I finally felt comfortable that I was at the right point. I still don't feel as confident as if I were working on a Chevy 283 or 350, but definitely better than before. Edit: One thing I did learn is that the Clymers is wrong in telling you to rotate the engine clockwise. The Suzuki manual is correct in telling you to rotate it counterclockwise. Both assume you are on the left/port side of the bike looking at the timing marks. Rotate the engine in the same direction as it normally moves. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/24/05 at 22:23:53 Once you do it....you got it! Walk the walk... 8) |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/24/05 at 22:25:39 Savage_Rob wrote:
This is a guy that has done it. You go, Savage Rob. ::) |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by defrag on 06/26/05 at 08:17:21 alrite, ive got the timing plug cover off, now i see a bolt with a little T on it, not sure what to line up at this point, i didnt see any marks other than that one. ??? when i crank this bolt the engine turns, im turning counter-clockwise when i "think" i have the engine in TDC there is play on both rockers. should i tighten it with the rocker play up or tighten them when the rocker is pressed down? this is what i see right now http://uploads.jzl.us/files/tdc.jpg http://uploads.jzl.us/files/tdc2.jpg |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/26/05 at 09:42:27 Boy, I got here just in time.... 8) (great pics, BTW) First, where is your manual? It should tell you that the paint mark on the bolt is supposed to line up with the small groove in the threaded hole...at the 3:00 position. That is TDC for the piston on either the compression or the exhaust stroke. Now you gotta find when both sets of valves are completely closed.... So watch when the intake valves open (piston going down) and then close. When the intake valves close the piston will start going up on the compression stroke....now, line up the paint mark at 3:00 and adjust your valves... See, what I mean about shortcuts? |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/26/05 at 09:44:41 Oh yeah, you're very correct to turn the engine in a counter-clockwise direction with that bolt....good point :D |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/26/05 at 10:05:30 Okay, here's the "rest of the story...." The paint mark and the groove in the hole are for tune ups and regular maintenance. You see them at the red arrow. With the case removed, there is another mark for TDC. This is located on the top of the rotor and lines up with a "V" shape that is cast in the crankcase (kinda silly that the blue arrow covers part of it...what can I say?). http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/Rotor01-2web.jpg |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by defrag on 06/26/05 at 11:41:02 copy greg thanks, thats what i figured. im having a bit of trouble squeezing all the tools into place, but i imagine with a bit of finesse i can get in there. now the screw should be tight with the .005 feeler before i snug up the bolt correct? im having to jam it in there pretty hard now. the diffrence between .003-.005 is hardly even noticeable on the feelers themselves. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/26/05 at 12:01:58 defrag wrote:
Yeah, it might have been nice if the engineers had made that cover a bit bigger so you could actually see and work in there at the same time...plus getting the tools around the frame. But you're on the right track, and with patience you won't have to do this for a long time to come. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Savage_Rob on 06/26/05 at 12:46:39 Yup. Got the better half to hold a flashlight for me and it helped a lot in being able to tell what I was doing. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by defrag on 06/26/05 at 13:18:40 ;D success! i think. lol it sounds lots smoother, i can only hear the tick if i try too. idle is fine as well. its still cutting out after idling for a while or if i try to give it gas. then it wont restart unless you let it sit for about 5-10 mins, then it will do the same thing. hmmm. any ideas? check out this pic here of my diaphram slide. that doesnt look normal to me. http://uploads.jzl.us/files/carbslide.jpg http://uploads.jzl.us/files/carbslide2.jpg |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by WD on 06/26/05 at 14:19:04 You officially have a galled carb slide. THAT is why I run two stroke oil in every tank. Don't know why it works, but it works. Polish it with a filthy dollar bill, reinstall, and add some oil to the gas. Will work for awhile while you wait on the new slide to arrive. -WD Info taken from years of tinkering and the Heise Savage forum. It works. Just don't ask me why. I don't know (and don't care to find out to be honest). |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by defrag on 06/26/05 at 14:21:07 WD wrote:
lol, quite an interesting fix. any suggestions on a place to order a new slide? also do you think this could be the cause of my bike cutting out after a few mins of idling? |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by WD on 06/26/05 at 14:27:36 Try BikeBandit or RonAyers. Or the dealership if need be (choice of last resort). Odds are the slide was causing the problems. It's pretty common to the Japanese bikes. Even the mechanical slides will gall and stick. >:( Sure wish regular carbs were still made for motorcycles. You know, like a Weber sidedraft without a slide system... -WD It can't be THAT hard to fit a 240Z carb... |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by defrag on 06/26/05 at 14:33:31 ouch, looks like $80 for just that assembly. might as well just get a new carb. i see bobo selling a souped up stocker on ebay, looks promising. or maybe... somethign bigger :o |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by klx650sm2002 on 06/27/05 at 03:20:15 Yeah man go for the AMAL. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/27/05 at 05:37:40 defrag wrote:
How deep are the marks in the slide? Picture is just a bit fuzzy. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Reelthing on 06/27/05 at 08:23:05 I guess I'm thinking along the same lines as Greg - that doesn't look bad enough to worry about to me - I guess I consider the black coating as sacrifical - on the mikunis I have when the slide was dragging it has acted different than you describe - normally hangs on the way down, doesn't close the main jet at ldle to mid throttle and floods the devil out of the engine - good cleaning of the slide and bore take care it - I use electric contact cleaner and a clean clean rag to do it But you describe an engine happily at idle that just dies and will not start for 5-10 minutes - I might pull the air box to carb intake tube so I could watch the slide and see if the slide is acting correct. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by defrag4 on 06/27/05 at 20:15:48 the marks are definetly there and you can feel em, however i tried my best to clean it with some carb cleaner. same problem. i guess i can try to watch it with the filter off as reelthing suggested. |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 06/28/05 at 05:37:00 defrag4 wrote:
Just feeling the grooves doesn't mean they are a problem. I know that mine has a couple scratches too. I'd be taking a closer look at the rubber diaphragm (sp, it's early). Was it correctly sealing the top of the carb. AND...How come the slide doesn't have a jet needle sticking out of it? Did you remove it? |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by defrag on 06/28/05 at 22:06:52 diapgrham seems to be alrite, no noticeable rips or tears. and ya, i removed the needle while i was cleaning the carb |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Reelthing on 07/01/05 at 07:24:07 So did you end up with bobo's carb? |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by Greg_650 on 07/02/05 at 07:15:57 With all the mashed taters slapping the tank, I forgot about this topic. Have we found the problem yet? |
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Title: Re: Valve Adjust? Post by defrag on 07/06/05 at 19:30:16 just got back from DC putting on the 4th of July show for PBS, once the paycheck comes in from that im ordering the new AMAL carb sets that lancer is selling, bout $190 for a carb w/ filter and custom cables, not bad |
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