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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Broken Cylinder Head Bolt & More... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1113829852 Message started by Savage_Rob on 04/18/05 at 06:10:52 |
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Title: Broken Cylinder Head Bolt & More... Post by Savage_Rob on 04/18/05 at 06:10:52 Well, I set aside the time and dove in to replace the head seal/plug. I used Greg's advice and printed the diagram below and taped it to a cardboard box and inserted the bolts at the proper places. It really did make it much easier to get them back in the right places later. http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/HeadPattern01web.jpg The only problem came when I was finishing up and was torquing the bolts down. The bolt shown as L25 above broke off in the head. It appears to be recessed into the head, though I haven't yet tried removing the valve cover a second time. I guess that now means removing the engine so I can attempt the drill/ez-out routine. If anyone has any better ideas, I'm open to suggestions. Otherwise, it's probably going to be a while before I ride again because I won't have the time to try this for a while. Overall this was only one component of several making my weekend memorable in a way I wish I could easily forget. |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Kropatchek on 04/18/05 at 06:39:53 Have heard about this problem before. Remove the cover again and try to get the stuck piece of bolt out. The guy i'm talking about stripped the thread in the head and also the bolt C130 and fitted a helicoil in both holes. Good luck greetz Kropatchek ;D |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by slavy on 04/18/05 at 07:42:08 Similar story happened to me 3 different times on 3 different Savages. All were leaking. I thought it is the plug, but came out to be the threads /twise/ and once I put a wrong bolt and I stripped the threads. Not even once I needed to pull the engine out. First thing is to see where is the bolt brocken- how deep. This bolt goes thru the head and it is threaded in the cylinder. Hopefully only the bolt head broke off and You will be able to use vise-grips to pull it out. If no- You might have to pull the head off. There are a lot of posts about this situation- PROs and CONs for removing the engine to do the work. I personally don't like to do more work than the minimum , but most of the people here preffer to pull the engine out and do the work on the bench. If You have to drill the bolt out and mess up the threads the best thread repair is TIME-SERT. If You can not find anybody to do it ,better go on line and buy it from the distributor . You need metric 6X1 kit. It is costly, but I promise You, You will never regret buying it. In the worst case You can do what I did with my first one- just made the hole go thru the Cylinder casting, put a longer bolt that went thru and showed out , and put a nut outside /on the bottom/. Worked 100%. Good luck ! |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Savage_Rob on 04/18/05 at 08:04:47 It wasn't just the bolt head. Part of the bolt came with it but I honestly can't say with surety how much, just from memory. I want to say it was about 3/8 inch of bolt past the head but I don't have it with me now to confirm that. |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Greg_650 on 04/22/05 at 10:10:24 Savage_Rob wrote:
I feel your pain...really! This one is the L60 bolt. http://home.comcast.net/~gmdinusa/HeadBoltBroke03web.jpg I was able to pick it out with a pin punch. This is why they recommend a torque wrench on these bolts. When I did this, I was just merrily shooting the crap while working and wasn't paying attention. And it broke before I reached any real torque. Oh yeah, it was a memorable moment, alright.... |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Savage_Rob on 04/22/05 at 11:16:18 I think the bolt must've been prestressed because I broke it off using the torque wrench. |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Greg_650 on 04/22/05 at 11:22:33 Savage_Rob wrote:
Then there wasn't like a real "pop" sound when it broke? It sort of broke easily? Then you are probably right, and if that's the case, then there is a good chance that the bolt piece is actually loose in the threads so that you can pick it out. Just be patient :) I think that it took me an hour to get that little piece out. |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Savage_Rob on 04/22/05 at 13:45:23 No pop to it at all. Kinda twisted off like it was plastic instead of steel. |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Greg_650 on 04/22/05 at 14:48:15 That's what mine did. You should be able to get it out without all the worry. |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Savage_Rob on 04/22/05 at 17:46:46 I think I'll still need to remove the cylinder head to get at anything though. That bolt is centered under the frame. I just can't access it any other way, I don't think. I haven't taken the valve cover back off yet to peek at it though. It pissed me off so much I thought I'd be better off waiting a couple of weeks before messing with it again. I was soooooooo close to picking up the 4 lb. maul to "fix" it. |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by slavy on 04/22/05 at 23:22:27 The first thing- lets hope You will have enough meat to grab with vise grips and unscrew it. If there is very little piece sticking, You might ask some welder to weld a piece or even a hex on top of it and unscrew it using suitable tool. Pulling the head or the engine should me the last desperate step. |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Greg_650 on 04/23/05 at 07:31:39 Savage_Rob wrote:
There's another thought too....I've seen bolts get into a "hydraulic lock" where the hole was full of oil when you tightened the bolt. I usually try to blow out the holes or poke something inside to displace any oil. Let's think positively now....I think I can, I think I can.... I know it's a pisser, but you got to get back on that horse and ride.... |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Savage_Rob on 05/08/05 at 12:26:28 Okay, I finally got the time to take another look... and calmed down enough to do it methodically. I hope I don't jinx anything by saying this but it appears the gods may have smiled upon me in this instance. I have what appears to be almost 1/8 inch of bolt sticking up. I may need to remove the carb to use vise grips but I am hopeful I won't have to drill. I'll try to take a pic or two as I go. Time to get back to it. |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Oklahoma_Mike on 05/08/05 at 13:14:45 Savage_Rob wrote:
I hope that is the case sir 8) |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Savage_Rob on 05/08/05 at 18:12:25 Well, unfortunately I didn't have the camera set on macro so it came out fuzzy. I'll spare you. However, I was able to get a hold of it with needlenose vise-grips and back it off a half turn using several very small movements. After that, I was able to back it out by hand and I think everything went pretty well after that. I want to let the silicone sealant cure fully before I start her up so I'm waiting until tomorrow to give it a try. |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Oklahoma_Mike on 05/08/05 at 19:11:59 Savage_Rob wrote:
Glad to hear it you dodged a bullet there! 8) |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Reelthing on 05/08/05 at 19:14:18 Congrats - bet you sleep better! |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Greg_650 on 05/09/05 at 05:15:39 Ya did good....ya beat it. |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by slavy on 05/09/05 at 22:32:53 And now what? - You missed all the fun ;D |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Savage_Rob on 05/10/05 at 05:30:57 I started her up last night and let her run for a few minutes and she sounded good. I didn't have time to ride at that point but planned to take her to work this morning. When I tried to start her up this morning, she went "click" and that was it. The thing that seemed odd was that the headlight came on initially when I turned the key but after the "click", it stayed off. I didn't have time to do anything but hook her up to the trickle charger. Though I'm usually pretty careful, I am wondering if maybe I pinched a wire under the tank and drained the battery with a short to ground. I would have though that would have occurred during the first 24 hours while the sealant cured but she started fine last night. Oh well, I'll start by looking for a short and go from there. I'm assuming there should be no problem with the decomp cable since I simply disconnected and reconnected it. I made no adjustments. Also, it worked last night. Hmm. I'll wait for the trickle charge, try again, check for shorts and go from there. No need to get ahead of myself again. |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Greg_650 on 05/10/05 at 07:28:23 Savage_Rob wrote:
I bet it isn't the battery. Not since it started last night. Check the fuses and then find out what blew. "Click and the lights" out sounds like a fuse. |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Savage_Rob on 05/10/05 at 09:00:58 Greg_650 wrote:
It does emit a single click on each successive try but still no lights. Yeah, fuses sound good too. I'll try to hit it tonight if my daughter's school musical lets out early enough. |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Reelthing on 05/10/05 at 09:31:34 My last adventure with pulling the tank resulted in about the same thing - I had pinched the turn signal wire - blew the 20a fuse twice and then it fried the flasher - every wire I could find now has thick spiral wrap - looked easier than a rewire |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Ed_L. on 05/10/05 at 16:10:32 Last time I pulled the tank I must of put a gazillion tie wraps on the electricals. Boredum, beer and a bike in the garage can result in strange things happening. Real glad to hear the head bolt was an easy removal. Had one like that on my wife's cage a few years ago. The bolt broke at the threads going into the block(sounds familar doesn't it) when the engine was running the bolt would jump about an inch out of the hole and then fall back in. The busted threaded part came right out same as your's did. Luck with the electrical bug. Ed L. |
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Title: Re: I think it's time to remove the engine... Post by Savage_Rob on 05/11/05 at 10:51:02 Well, I only had a few minutes last night and I used them to pull the tank, do a cursory check of wires and I also pulled the fuses. I didn't have my multimeter out but both fuses looked intact. I saw no obvious pinched, abraded or broken wires. Tomorrow's probably gonna be my next chance to do any real troubleshooting. |
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Title: Re: Broken Cylinder Head Bolt & More... Post by Savage_Rob on 05/17/05 at 18:09:38 Okay, I had the battery on the tender for the past week or so and haven't found anything else amiss in the bike so I put everything back together and reinstalled the battery and she started right up. Maybe the battery is not being charged properly by the bike and, if so this will repeat. Since I haven't had a lot of time to play with it I'll see what happens next and go from there. |
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