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Message started by Red_Wine on 04/07/05 at 12:13:10

Title: 400 cc Savage & Sportster muffler
Post by Red_Wine on 04/07/05 at 12:13:10

Since this weekend will be devoted to fix my 400cc, chain-driven 1990 black Savage, I'll try to get the Sportster muffler on it while I'll be at the bike's side.

Question is, being a 400cc, what should I do to the carb in order to accomodate the better flow and sound of a HD Sportster muffler I have to install?
Main jet? Idle screw?
Any idea is appreciated.

Take care,

RW

Title: Re: 400 cc Savage & Sportster muffler
Post by woodworker on 04/07/05 at 13:20:22

Check out the following link, there is some good "Rule of thumb" info on carb jetting versus modifications performed.http://www.motorcyclecarbs.com/jetting/default.htm

Title: Re: 400 cc Savage & Sportster muffler
Post by Greg_650 on 04/08/05 at 08:35:43

Red_Wine wrote:

Since you have the only 400 Savage in the group (you have a real distinction), this one is new. Certainly you don't have to do anything to accomodate the better sound of the HD muffler ;D but I do imagine that you'll have to think about the flow....and I imagine that new jets may be necessary. Or an adjustment. It would be neat if you could fill us in concerning the inside of your carb. Jet size and jet needle on the 400 Savage are new subjects.

Title: Re: 400 cc Savage & Sportster muffler
Post by Red_Wine on 04/08/05 at 09:19:26

Hi Greg,

regarding the inside of the carb, I have no clue, I'll try to measure it this weekend.
Also, I'll try to get the new muffler without changing jets yet ;D :o

However, based on your wide knowledge of tuning principles, let's assume my carb is slightly smaller inside than the one in the 650 version, and accordingly, the jets are smaller, should I increase the amount of fuel going into the cylinder? or should I go higher with the air into the cylinder?

In fact, I'll print most of your tips and photos about the carb and identify all the bolts first, then I'll think about touching them ;)

Do you have any additional pictures that I would like to see before I get my bloody hands on the carb?

Thanks, and once I'm done, I promise to post pictures of both before and after.

Take care,

RW

Title: Re: 400 cc Savage & Sportster muffler
Post by WD on 04/08/05 at 09:30:57

If you put on a free-flowing exhaust, even just a muffler, you should rejet and get a better flowing airfilter. Key word, should. I run an open exhaust on a 98 650, with factory jetting, factory spacer, dirty factory aircleaner, and the idle mixture screw out two or so turns beyond stock. Bike gets in the mid-70s to mid-80s miles per gallon with that set-up, and still carbons up the end of the exhaust pipe (yep, that long set-up in the pics is empty, no muffler guts). Plug still is a nice tan to slightly brown color. I do have to run premium fuel in it though.

Follow the pics. Carbs likely aren't the same, but should be similar.
-WD

Title: Re: 400 cc Savage & Sportster muffler
Post by Greg_650 on 04/08/05 at 09:45:27

Red_Wine wrote:

You just have to remember that no matter what the engine...lawnmower or race car, there is an air to fuel ratio that needs to be maintained to get the best performance. Now, I doubt that your 400 was leaned out to the degree of the newer 650s, but stock from the factory Savages are leaned towards the more air side of the ratio anyway. The focus on pollution and not performance.

When you change your pipe, you will be creating or increasing the more air than fuel ratio on your 400. You may notice more sound and with the freer flow, you may even notice more top end, but you will definitely lose something because you will be running a leaner ratio.

I am curious if your jet needle has a fixed setting and/or spacer, too. What size Mikuni carb does the 400 use?

Title: Re: 400 cc Savage & Sportster muffler
Post by Red_Wine on 04/08/05 at 09:54:47

Greg,
right now, I have no clue about the carb size or jet sizes. I'll find out once I get to the carb tomorrow. :o

I understand your fuel to air ratio stuff, and yes, with the HD muffler more air will flow through the engine, and therefore I should put more fuel into it in order to mantain the F/A ratio, right?

That means, I should open the fuel screw passage or wathever that is called, right?

Anyway, if I screw up and cann't get the bike to start after all the mess, I can put it back to present condition, and write to you for solutions ;D

Thanks,

RW

Title: Re: 400 cc Savage & Sportster muffler
Post by Greg_650 on 04/08/05 at 09:56:00

Title: Re: 400 cc Savage & Sportster muffler
Post by Red_Wine on 04/11/05 at 07:14:45

Hi fellas,

an update on the current development. :)

The muffler swap did not work. :( I pulled the existing pipe (an ugly doobie-like muffler) and the bracket off the frame, tried to get the HD muffler on, but I realized that I needed to get a completely new support setup for that. ??? So I took some measurements, sketched a bracket, but got stuck with no welding shop open Saturday evening (not to mention Sunday). >:( My father had sold his Oxi-Acetilene kit, so I'm stuck until later in the week. :(

Since riding the bus to work is a no-no, and driving the cage involved a huge bill in parking, I just let the header on, bolted a chromed tip, and fired her... WOW!!! it is d***med LOUD!!! ;D :o

So far, no jetting was needed altough it tends to "cough" on take off at stop lights, and BIG LOUD FARTS are coming out the back on deceleration... :o

I'll get ear plugs today for the ride back home, otherwise I could get permanent ear damage :o

I'll have the bracket cut and welded today or tomorrow, coat it with black paint, bolt the HD muffler by the weekend, and see what happens ;D

I'll kep you posted, pictures are on the way, just need to expose the complete film, (probably a weeked job ;D)

Take care,

RW

Title: Re: 400 cc Savage & Sportster muffler
Post by Lion on 05/16/06 at 02:05:49

Since I also have a 400cc Savage I would like to know the effects of your modifications.

I will get my new 2 main jets today and I am going to do these mods:
- Denso Platinum spark plug
- Sport air filter
- new main jet: from 132.5 (stock) to 135 or 137.5
- half white spacer
- later on: custom-made muffler

My fuel tank is indented due to my crash. The mechanic guy will repair it and he also makes custom mufflers so it will be a two-in-one repair.

Title: Re: 400 cc Savage & Sportster muffler
Post by SAMM on 05/16/06 at 10:11:24

Lion... This thread is a year old... You might want to email red_wine direct... Click on his name for his email address......

Title: Re: 400 cc Savage & Sportster muffler
Post by Lion on 05/16/06 at 10:21:03

Thank you, I know that this tread is old. I thought Red_Wine has some information here. Anyway it is not so important.

Title: Re: 400 cc Savage & Sportster muffler
Post by Red_Wine on 05/16/06 at 14:13:04

Well Lion,

I just had to change the jets one size bigger, and the new (not new anymore, it's been there for a year) HD muffler is just great.

No farts, just a very small "poof" when killing the engine, that's all I get..Good luck.

BTW, where are you with your 400cc Savage?

Best,

RW

Title: Re: 400 cc Savage & Sportster muffler
Post by SAMM on 05/16/06 at 14:41:37

Sorry Lion ...I wasnt sure Red_Wine was still posting...

Title: Re: 400 cc Savage & Sportster muffler
Post by Lion on 05/17/06 at 00:36:39

Never mind neither do I :D