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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Next Generation Savage/S40 /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1107858073 Message started by PerrydaSavage on 02/08/05 at 02:21:13 |
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Title: Next Generation Savage/S40 Post by PerrydaSavage on 02/08/05 at 02:21:13 8)Morning everyone ... just got back for my morning walk and was thinking about, "just where is Suzuki going?" Most agree, that this years introduction of the Boulevard S40 is a subtle improvement on the previous LS650 Savage ... but essentially, our beloved Thumper remains virtually unchanged ... and has been so since it's initial introduction in 1986. With the Boulevard line-up of 'Zuki cruisers for 2005, most magazine articles I've read have hinted that it is only the first step in a total re-working of Suzuki's entire cruiser platform. Just what changes might be in store for the Savage/S40? Will it continue? Will it eventually be dropped altogether ... or will Suzuki introduce a whole new 650cc cruiser? Hard to say ... This Spring, Hyosung Motors of South Korea will be introducing the GV650 Aquila to the American and Canadian motorcycle marketplace ... it is a "V-Rod" styled cruiser that houses Suzuki's tried-and-true SV650 V-twin powerplant. I'm sure that the market-moguls at Suzuki will be watching closely to see how well this Bike is received in North America ... http://www.onewheeldrive.net/images/stories/2005/Features/Hyosung/gv650aquila.jpg What're all your thoughts on this? How do you see the Savage/S40 evolving? What would you like to see? |
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Title: Re: Next Generation Savage/S40 Post by gitarzan on 02/08/05 at 04:29:13 Great shades of VRod! :o |
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Title: Re: Next Generation Savage/S40 Post by Paladin on 02/08/05 at 06:08:16 A 485 pound liquid cooled V-twin, ho-hum. I personally find it slightly less thrilling than a 485 pound pile of cow dung. While it will probably sell adaquately the world really does not need yet another cloned baby Hawg. If I wanted useless weight I could strap a couple of barbell plates to the sides of the Savage. |
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Title: Re: Next Generation Savage/S40 Post by gitarzan on 02/08/05 at 06:34:41 While that's not a bad looking bike at all, handling and performance is an unknown as of yet. I'd suspect as does Paladin that performance will be average for that genre, but then again, if a guy likes the VRod look but can't pony up >$20K it may fill a niche. Lets face it, our beloved Thumper doesn't sell in the showroom because of it's classic style or simplicity or thumper aura. People buy it because it's low cost, smallish and has a rep as a beginners bike. |
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Title: Re: Next Generation Savage/S40 Post by slavy on 02/08/05 at 07:04:52 What saves the Savage so far is the fact that it is unique. Suzuki is happy that there is not similar motorcycle made by Honda /with XL650 engine in/ or Yamaha /with Raptor engine/, because LS650 will be dead in the water immidiately. Our bikes here are exeptions. All of us are enthusiasts and we make-up for the Suzuki's mistakes. The average MC owner doesn't want to tinker. And the average owner is the one that determines the number of sales. |
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Title: Re: Next Generation Savage/S40 Post by HotFix on 02/08/05 at 07:06:30 gitarzan wrote:
That is why I have mine. I can safely lean it over 20 degrees at a stand still and you can't beat the ($ per CC)/weight factor anywhere. That is what they need to target. |
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Title: Re: Next Generation Savage/S40 Post by PerrydaSavage on 02/08/05 at 12:29:30 Interesting comments ... though I think we all know why we love our Thumpers so much ... but given that 'Zuki is in the process of re-vamping their entire Crusier line-up, do you think they'll keep the S40 around, or do you think that model will be dropped? |
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Title: Re: Next Generation Savage/S40 Post by gitarzan on 02/08/05 at 12:47:43 I'd say it would be dropped for a little VTwin. I'd rather see a highly tuned big-single, but I think that most people who buy it think that a thumper is a bunny rabbit... "We" are the fanatics. I bought mine because it is a single. It reminded me of other classic singles. The Yamaha, BSAs, etc. The only thing that might save the SuziSingle is the fact that tooling for it has to be so for paid off that they can't afford to drop a bike that costs them so little to make. |
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Title: Re: Next Generation Savage/S40 Post by Savage_Rob on 02/08/05 at 12:48:50 My guess is they'll likely keep it around for the same reasons they've kept it around for the past several years. They recovered their R&D long ago and anything above cost is just gravy now. |
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Title: Re: Next Generation Savage/S40 Post by PerrydaSavage on 02/08/05 at 13:24:21 Agree, that Suzuki's R&D and tooling for the LS650 has been long paid for, but since it's likely that the Savage/S40 isn't a volume seller, is seen by many motorcyclsts as a "Beginner" Bike (though not by most members of this Forum ;)) and generally doesn't get any press from m/c trade publications, I can't help but wonder how it's "doing" for the Company? 'Zuki is already in bed with Kawi on the 1600 Mean Streak/Marauder models ... and as pointed out, has their SV650 & 1000 powerplants in several Hyosung models ... so it isn't inconceivable that any R&D and/or re-tooling req'd for a new 650cc model would be shared with either of the 2 aforementioned manufacturers ... right now, the Savage/S40's three closest compeditors in the Cruiser marketplace are Kawi's EN500 Vulcan, Honda's VLX600 and Yami's 650 V-Star siblings ... the Star(s) and the VLX being v-twins ... and all weigh more than the Savage, so power/weight ratio may actually less than the LS650's 33HP/352lbs (I have no idea of the figures for the other Bikes ... though I know that the EN500 is actually faster than many 750cc Cruisers ...). So, all that being said, I too wouldn't be surprised if the eventual successor to our dear Thumper will be a v-twin ... possibly a joint effort (the Baby Vulcan is due for a replacement) ... and possibly either a direct compeditor for the 650 V-Star Classic or an entry-level "Power Cruiser" using the SV650 mill, similar to the Hyosung. Personally, I'd like to see Suzuki maintain the unique "Big Single" ... just keep upgrading the current platform with an easier to remove tank and/or easier spark plug access, a bar mounted speedo with a trip-meter, and a fresher "Custom" styling ... |
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Title: Re: Next Generation Savage/S40 Post by mrbusdriver on 02/08/05 at 18:11:09 Hi all, Dave here, 03 Savage, lurker who finally joined the fold... Got my (practically new) thumper about 6 months ago, and in this short time have become somehat "defensive" over the bike. So few even know what a Savage/S40 is, and with "bike inflation" it seems anything that isn't a V Twin 800 gets at best a polite nod as a possible starter bike. I always stress to folks the fact that the thumper is an inexpensive, simple, extremely fun bike. So much of the Savage's future lies in marketing...it is the only major single piston "lightweight" cruiser around. When I was searching for that 1st bike, I was looking for a bike that would "last" and keep me entertained, while being easy to grow on, as well as inexpensive to own. The LS650 was the only choice based on everything I read from it's "real" owners. It's Suzuki's call...the S40 isn't a high profit machine. They don't "push" it like their other bikes. But it is such a unique animal, and with some minor engineering tweaks to fix well known issues, this bike could be the ideal fun bike...it has a niche that the marketers haven't bothered to discover or exploit. I get so annoyed that so many think anything less that a Sportster isn't a bike...even that bike is gaining ground as a "girlie" bike...but that's another thread. I'd love to see Suzi fix the well known issues on this bike, and begin to take their unique machine seriously. It is a wonderful ride to learn on, and can very obviously satisfy the owner long after the "training wheels" are off. It's user friendly, maintainable, and very ridable. As my miles slowly build up, I am really getting to enjoy this ride...I am just frustrated at times that it is all but ignored by the community, and perhaps underappreciated by it's very manufacturer...at least here in the USA. It's a great bike...fix the bugs and sell it for what it is, a wonderfully fun ride. Love my bike, and am glad to finally "surface" among you all...good riding to all. Dave |
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Title: Re: Next Generation Savage/S40 Post by Desnick on 02/08/05 at 19:54:41 We probably all buy our Savage-S40s for different reasons. Myself , it reminds me of my Norton 500 single that I had as a teenager, some 40+ years ago. When I first laid my eyes on the S40, I said to myself, that bike I have to have. Its not my primary bike, but when it comes time for those shorter rides, its the one I hop on. What a thrill to ride, quick and nimble. And when I not riding, its a great bike to tinker with, parts and accessaries are not as expensive like they are for my beemer. |
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Title: Re: Next Generation Savage/S40 Post by Reelthing on 02/08/05 at 20:40:14 Dave, I'm surely new to the LS650 - 2 weeks into it, but sure seems like a fine ride, so fine in fact, that I doubt it will continue much longer. Once you do the basics, make it breath better with a pipe (jardine on this one) and freeer flowing intake air (k&n su6595 today), richen it up to match the air flow (~2 turns out on the pilot mixture ->152.5 or 155 jet and a half spacer this weekend), get it happy with synthetic oil (no clutch slipage with 10w40 mobil 1 mx4t here - maybe 20w50 for summer or 1 of each 15w45?), pickup a Clymer M384-2 manual, you have a bike that with just routine maintenance will in all likely hood run many years and top 100k miles without much dealer involvement. Even a re-ring is fairly simple for a shadetree. I believe that companies want to make more than this on post sales parts and service, so in will come a multi cylinder, computerized, fuel injected replacement. Yes such engines make more power and get more from the gasoline they burn - like the new outboard 2-stroke and 4-stroke engines, all is good until the check engine light and alarm comes on, and then it's off to the dealer to find out what is wrong. I expect bikes to follow cars and boats - why not? Gary |
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Title: Re: Next Generation Savage/S40 Post by Paladin on 02/08/05 at 21:22:29 Cynical and insightful. |
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Title: Re: Next Generation Savage/S40 Post by Red_Wine on 02/09/05 at 06:36:56 Paladin wrote:
Paladin, my friend... I just do not understand that comment.... :-/ I agree with most of the views expressed here, and I am centrainly surprised with the fact that this beautiful machine does not get as much attention from the general MC community nor from its manufacturer, :o but as long as my thumper keeps thumping and I can find piston rings, spark plugs, filters and brake pads, and so on, I'll probably not care what Suzi does to its line-up; I already have a Savage ;D I would certainly complain when Suzi stops making spare parts, >:( but again, piston rings and the other stuff may be aftermarket; ;) I just need it to keep thumping ;D Take care, RW |
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Title: Re: Next Generation Savage/S40 Post by Paladin on 02/09/05 at 08:59:47 Our Savage is a *simple* machine that is easy to maintain. We have no need to go back to the dealer for what we need to keep running. This is good for us, not as good for the dealer. What Reelthing said was "I believe that companies want to make more than this on post sales parts and service, so in will come a multi cylinder, computerized, fuel injected replacement. " In other words, the Savage does not bring in the after sales income that the more technically advanced motorcycles do. The dealers have no great incentive to market the Savage, and in fact my two closest Suzuki dealers do not stock the Savage and one bad-mouthed the Savage saying that it leaked oil and vibrated and that people who bought them soon returned them. The big market is not in the original item, but in the aftermarket support. Hence, our Thumper will possibly be dropped in favor of a fuel-injected liquid-cooled computer-controlled V-twin. Even with the design costs paid off the production line still occupies space that could be used to make a more profitable motorcycle. Think about it. What happened to being able to buy a basic automobile with the optional heater and radio? |
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Title: Re: Next Generation Savage/S40 Post by PerrydaSavage on 02/09/05 at 14:14:20 Paladin ... you've hit on some very interesting and valid points ... especially regarding the Savage's basic simplicity and it's inherent appeal to some types of people ... and how simplicity doesn't always translate into aftermarket sales. I sometimes see it as the "failed promise of technology" ... around 1970 or so, there was a television program aired here in Canada called; Here Comes the 70's ... it was a show about future trends going into the then distant year of 2000. Anyhoo, one particular episode which stands out in my memory (eventhough I was only 9 at the time ;)) was how in the coming decades technology would make our lives simplier, freeing up valuable leisure time ... well, in many ways the exact opposite has happened ... our lives seem more hectic and complicated now than ever before, despite have a high tech gadget for our almost every need ... so, I know where you are coming from Paladin ... sadly, it is likely that the simple LS650 may move aside in the coming years to make room for a more (uneccessarily) complex replacement that some "bean counter" with Suzuki's marketing department deems more "profitable" ... I sometimes think that had technology stopped evolving at 1950's levels then our Western Society might be somewhat more content today ... then again though we wouldn't be having this very interesting discussion through the internet! |
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Title: Re: Next Generation Savage/S40 Post by Frost on 02/09/05 at 16:05:39 The Kymco Venox 250 http://www.strmotorsports.com/showroom/mcs/venox250/Venox.jpg I was acually looking at one of these before I decided on a savage..picked the savage because of the more hands on aspects of the engine. KYMCO Venox 250 Engine Type V-twin DOHC 8 valve Displacement 249cc Horsepower 28hp Bore/Stroke 58x47.2 Max Torque 14.0 / 8000 Cooling System Liquid Ignition Electric Gearbox 5 Speed Chassis Steel Front Suspension Telescopic forks Rear Suspension Springs Front Brake Single disc Rear Brake Drum Front Wheel/Tire 120/80-17 Rear Wheel/Tire 150/80-15 Seat Height 29 in. (736.6mm) Wheelbase 63 in. (1600.2mm) Fuel Capacity 3.7 gals. (14 liters) Weight 418.5 lbs. Available Colors Grey, Blue-Black or Yellow MSRP $3,999 Features V-twin DOHC water cooled 249cc engine, front disc brakes, 5 speed manual gearbox, lots of curb appeal and a 2 Year Factory Warranty. C.A.R.B. Certified http://www.motoring.co.za/site/30/picdb/article2/9/6/15911 |
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Title: Re: Next Generation Savage/S40 Post by Savage_Rob on 02/10/05 at 07:28:57 PerrydaSavage wrote:
I'm almost with you on that. The profit motive seems to have driven the technology we're offered off on some rather unfavorable (in my view) tangents. I fear Paladin may have a valid point. |
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