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Message started by ddiego1@GMU.EDU on 02/05/05 at 05:19:04

Title: winter maintenance help
Post by ddiego1@GMU.EDU on 02/05/05 at 05:19:04

just two questions:

i changed my brake fluid and found that my brake is hard to pull in....i followed the bleeding instructions in the clymer.

i also found when trying to start the bike, my plug is oil fouled.....i believe this happened when i changed the leaking plug. i didn't torque the bolts enough and some oil leaked through. how do i get rid of the oil?.......i tried to start it this morning and didn't find any oil on the plug but just to be safe...

thanks all

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by slavy on 02/05/05 at 12:23:42

About the oil on the plug- If the bike runs and everything is OK /compression, valve adjustment, carburetor , ignition/ ,and this is a correct spark plug , You don't have to do anything. When You ride the bike the spark plug will clean by itself.
About the brake problem- I don't follow You. May be somebody else will be more helpful

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by ddiego1 on 02/05/05 at 15:37:35

well....bout the brakes.

when I did the whole bleeding the brakes thing i did it till i had no air left in the hose. but i noticed that pulling the brake lever in was very difficult and when i rolled the bike forward, the brake felt like it was being applied. I ended up letting out some brake fluid and it made it easier to pull the brake in and also let my bike roll freely.

i'll prob end up doing the bleeding again to see if i can get it right. i don't know what i did wrong. right now the brakes feel right but i'm sure i have air in there somewhere.....

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by Kropatchek on 02/06/05 at 05:15:35

RE Brakes; ???

Maybe there's too much brakefluid in the system. Try applying the brake with the brake reservoir cover off.

BTW Did you lubricate the 2 pins on which the caliper moves with silicon grease?

Keep us posted of what you find.

Greetz
Kropatchek ;D

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by ddiego1 on 02/06/05 at 05:39:24

i think u may be right about too much brake fluid. i didn't know that was possible tho. but i took a test ride around the block after taking out a bit of fluid and there doesnt seem to be any rubbing and my brakes feel softer.

i had to replace the whole brake lever/mastercylinder assymbly cuz the previous owner had stripped the screws on top of the cylinder. i ended up getting a cylinder for a flat-bar which made it fit alot better on mine cuz i changed my pull back bar to a drag bar.

i need to reupholster my pillion seat. anyone have any tips....or how difficul this job is?

im not really sure about the two pins cuz i never disassembled the caliper.

thanks for the help

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by Kropatchek on 02/06/05 at 05:48:18

Glad you'r up and running.
Wise move to get the brakehandle of the flatbar, gives you more options ( flexability) for the brakeline. Got one too from Anderson.

Greetz
Kropatchek

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by bobo383 on 02/06/05 at 08:59:38

I had the same brake problem on my klx250 dirt bike. Lever hard to pull, front wheel dragging. I figured I had a stuck caliper or too much fluid, turned out to be the latter. Like you, I did not think it was possible to hydro-lock the brakes but I found out different.

I removed the caliper and tried to compress the piston with a c-clamp, and it wouldn't budge. I loosened the bleed screw, tightened the c-clamp to "burp" out some fluid, and that's all I had to do. everything worked fine after that and the problem did not come back.

Hope this helps. Are you at GMU, ddiego1? What course of study? I am one of the few GM engineers that did not go to GMU.

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by ddiego1 on 02/06/05 at 09:29:10

nice...thanks for the tips

i'm an IT major in George Mason....

maybe we're talking about a different GMU....never really saw Mason as a big engineering school.

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by ddiego1 on 02/06/05 at 10:43:22

ok.....one more question

i was out riding and i accelerated pretty quickly to 45mph then i stayed at 45 for a couple seconds then started braking. I heard alot of backfiring then the engine stalled and i coasted to the side of the street.

i put it in PRI and it took a couple times for it to start. afterwards i went home.

this has happened to me before at 60 mph. my question is....why is this happening? I'm positive i have gas. is this a sign that i may have water in my gas?

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by Blueshift on 02/06/05 at 11:33:41

Just got a 95 Savage about two months ago (brand new rider) and I have similiar situation happened to me...I know it's not the gas cap vent clogging because I tried starting the bike with the gas cap off and that doesn't help. I was thinking the problem maybe due to weak vacuum (how to check?) or stuck p-e-t-c-c-o-c-k diaphram. What's weird is that after stopping by to get some more gas (there's still like 1/4 tank left, but what the heck...), the problem goes away and fuel valve 'on' position works again (for now). It really worry me if this happen one of these day when I'm in the middle of heavy traffic like on the freeway, not that I'm doing that anytime soon, but still...

Ride safe or don't ride at all ;)

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by bobo383 on 02/06/05 at 11:46:43

I had several problems with the vacuum operated petc0ck - It didn't always work in the "ON" position, giving problems like you describe, and finally the diaphragm started leaking fuel into the vacuum port on the carb.

I am too cheap to go buy another petc0ck so I converted mine to manual operation, just like a dirt bike. Vac ports are blocked off at the carb and at the petc0ck. The "PRI" is now the "OFF" position. Still have normal operaton in "ON" and "RES". I had to figure it out myself but it's not that difficult, and if there's enough interest I will post some instructions/pics on the technical page.

Other than that, check the vacuum line for leaks from the carb to the petc0ck. The best way to check vac is with a mightyvac (mityvac?) like they sell at a car parts place. It allows you to pull a vacuum and hold it to see if it's leaking down in your hose,diaphragm, device, etc. (Also is very handy if you work on cars, to check vac advance, egr, etc.)

If fuel comes out when you pull the vac line off, you've got the leak that drove me over the edge to manual-zone.

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by Blueshift on 02/06/05 at 11:58:24

I would love to know the details of your solution, that could be useful item to add the technical section, thanks Bobo383....FWIW, there's no fuel leak in my vacuum line and yes, there's vacuum I could feel with my finger. I even put a clamp on the petc0ck side of it to make sure there's no vacuum leak...but the problem still persisted....gotta be something else. I know I can ride around in 'PRI' but that doesn't give me any reserved. Right now I am riding around with a small bottle of reserve gas strapping to the frame LOL...what a bandage. Anyway, I installed one of the bicycle computer so that I can look at the 'Trip meter' to give a feel when I am about to run out of gas.

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by bobo383 on 02/06/05 at 13:49:20

You basically disassemble the entire pectc0ck, delete the vac diaphragm and springs, plug the hole in the plastic valve that corresponds to the "PRI" position, and re-assemble. You'll need to cap the vacuum diaphragm at the petc0ck to keep fuel from running out, and cap it at the carb to maintain vacuum.

"PRI" is now off. ON and RES will no longer switch off when the motor is off, so you'll have to remember to turn it off when you stop riding or you'll likely fill the crankcase and airbox with gasoline.

This is a modification to the bike, and some folks would rather just buy a new petc0ck so everthing remains stock. No problem with that, I'm just cheap and already used to manual petc0cks from many years of dirt bikes and ATVs.

Next time I've got that part of the bike apart I'll make a photo documentary.

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by Blueshift on 02/07/05 at 15:37:40

Thanks Bobo383...my question is, even without this mods, my petc0ck already have this on-off function. So what's the gain here??? I must be dense today ;D

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by Nightrain on 02/07/05 at 15:57:18

Maybe you were lucky enough to get a bike that didn’t have the vacuum operated petcock. I would love to score one of those as I am not a fan of complicating a simplistic design. What year is your bike? Suzuki obviously felt that they couldn’t trust the operator to shut their own fuel off, so the designed a petcock that would eliminate the ability of the user to do so. In such a design, there is more inclination of mechanical failure. I am old school and like it the old way.

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by slavy on 02/07/05 at 17:21:12

Yes,
I am 100% with You, but I think the reason is -if You lay the bike and the bike dies, the gas doesn't keep leaking.
This works in the perfect world, but with the ERA gas all the rubber parts become like plastic and the idea goes down the drain.

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by bobo383 on 02/07/05 at 17:28:57

Mine's a 98, originally with the vac operated misery whip but now converted to on/off/reserve.

Blueshift, if your petc0ck has 3 positions: "PRI", "RES", and "ON" then you've got it too. That's what's giving you the occasional trouble that turning it to "PRI" fixes.

The vac operated petc0ck works like this:

"PRI" is forced on, and pulls from the bottom (reserve) standpipe in the tank. No vacuum is necessary because a little metal coil pushes the diaphragm valve back against its spring when the valve is turned to the "PRI" position, letting fuel flow no matter what.

"RES" and "ON" need vacuum to pull the diaphragm valve back against its spring and let fuel flow.

Brand new, this works really great.

It gets complicated when the machine ages and the diaphragm starts leaking, because ON and RES may or may not work, PRI works but does not give you any reserve warning, and there's no true OFF to keep from dumping fuel when the bike's off. Fuel leaks thru the diaphragm and goes into the vac line, to the carb, and into the motor.

That's why I went manual with mine.

I'm bidding on the Suzuki parts pile on eBay to get a petc0ck for the forthcoming manual conversion documentary. Then it will be up for sale. Wish me luck.

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by ddiego1 on 02/08/05 at 12:01:11

crap....well today i noticed my brakes were dragging again. so i dissassembled the caliper and bled the fluid. i compressed the piston too much and now i don't think i can get it out. will i be buying a new caliper? or is there a way to fix this....

when i compressed it i could see there is no room for fluid to come in behind the piston.

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by bobo383 on 02/08/05 at 19:02:41

Were you pressing it using the brake pad between the c-clamp and piston? If so you're OK. Re-assemble and everything will be fine.

Probably OK even if you weren't using the brake pad. Try it with some hydraulic pressure from the brake line and see - or did you already try it?

Crud. I lost the Savage parts pile on ebay. Any of yall got a leaky defective vac petcock that you took off / replaced sitting around, you'd like to loan me for a manual conversion how-to documentary? Mine's already converted and it's warm enough to ride here. I'll send it back to you as a working manual petcock unit.

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by tarheel365 on 02/09/05 at 05:18:06

yah....tried it already...
when i removed the brakeline from the caliper i could see the entire piston covering the other end of the hole.

:(

i'm ddiego1....i coudln't remember my password

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by slavy on 02/09/05 at 16:13:17

Try with compressed air. Just be very careful. Wrap everything in a rag.

Title: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaRe: winter maintenance help
Post by bobo383 on 02/09/05 at 16:27:57

It should come out even though the hole looks blocked. The compressed air is a good idea if the fluid did not work. Be sure to keep your improvised "airgun" pointed in a safe direction and wrapped up good.

It's been a while since I looked at the piston - is it hollow inside so you could put pliers together BACKWARDS and work it out from inside?

Worse comes to worse, there's a used caliper on ebay for $29 buy-it-now.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4511364950&category=34284&sspagename=WD1V
http://i5.ebayimg.com/01/i/02/f2/0a/bf_1.JPG

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by Nightrain on 02/09/05 at 16:36:12

When compressing the piston, Is it important to remove the cover for the master cylinder?

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by bobo383 on 02/09/05 at 18:37:55

I loosened the bleed screw instead. You're right, the pressure has to go somewhere. Smaller mess down by the ground, easier to clean fluid off the concrete than the bars & forks if you overflow.

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by ddiego1 on 02/09/05 at 20:26:37

im just gonna by the caliper...it looks alot cleaner than mine.

i also just found a crack on the plate that attaches to the fork so i tried to see how weak it was and it broke. so if i put it back on i'd only have one bolt attaching the caliper to the fork....doh

well at least i found it before anything bad could happen.

how accurate is the rear brake wear indicator? It reads that i'm still good but should i check it anyway? i love this bike! its so easy to work on and theres lots of parts available!!. this is my second bike...my first was a 250 nighthawk that i sold in 2 months(just not my style).

i'm going to repaint my tank and rear fender. when i remove my rear wheel do i have to readjust anything when i put it back together....i don't want my belt to be misaligned. I think this is all i'm goin to do before spring really starts. we've been having pleasant weather here and im dying to ride but its also good maintenance weather.

anything else i should do while the weather is good?
so far:
replaced leaking plug
changed to flat bar... no riser
painted side panels dark gray
removed sissy bar
painted exhaust hi temp flat black

thanks for all the advice

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by bobo383 on 02/09/05 at 20:35:48

When I repainted mine and re-assembled, I tightened the belt too tight and it was howling. Lots of discussion (me included) on the Tech board about adjusting the drive belt:
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1100717793

As for the rear brake, if it's not making alot of noise, squeeling or grinding, and the wear indicator reads ok, it's probably ok. If you're removing the rear wheel you will get a good look at the brake linings linings then. Can't avoid it as the brake hub will come off as soon as the wheel clears the frame.

I'd like to know how that flat black holds up on the exhaust, after a few months. I like the look but I'm skeeered it will come off the chrome.

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by ddiego1 on 02/10/05 at 17:30:37

the flat black is holding up pretty well so far. my exhaust was extremely rusty underneath and i don't really feel like buying a new exhaust just yet.

i have an 87 savage...does that mean i have a bigger jet than the newer ones? i'm just doing some low cost mods.

i'd like to buy an M50 in the future...but college drains my time and money.

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by ddiego1 on 02/15/05 at 12:11:20

ok here we go again!

i bought that brake caliper. everything is clean, i install it, and my brakes still drag!!!!.

i open up the caliper clean up the piston all nice. the piston slides in and out of the assembly relatively easy. its easier to push it in then out.

i try it again and my brakes still drag. is my front wheel supposed to spin freely? and its very difficult to pull the brake in all the way. is the piston supposed to recede back into the caliper assembly when i let go of the brakes?

what am i doing wrong?

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by Paladin on 02/15/05 at 13:59:43

Disc brakes drag constantly, but without pressure there is no wear. The hydraulics will move the pistons out to squeeze the rotor, but there is no mechanism to move the pistons back in.

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by bentwheel on 02/15/05 at 16:54:32

Paladin said >> but there is no mechanism to move the pistons back in. <<

Actually it is the job of the seal inside the caliper to pull the piston back in slightly. Under hydraulic pressure from the lever, the piston will be forced out and the O ring will be dragged to the extent of its elastic tension. On release of the lever, the hydraulic pressure is eliminated and the O ring relaxes,(returns to no tension) pulling the piston slightly inward to maintain clearance at the pads and disc.

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by Paladin on 02/15/05 at 17:03:02

Learn something every day. So if the pads actually drag you would want to replace the O-rings, eh?

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by Greg_650 on 02/18/05 at 11:37:23

ddiego1 wrote:

Can you tell if just one pad is rubbing hard on the rotor or is it both of them?

Title: Re: winter maintenance help
Post by ddiego1 on 02/18/05 at 17:17:10

hey i fixed it....well w/ a lil help from other sources.

ok......there are two holes in the master cylinder one the smaller one in there was blocked up with some residue.

i cleared up the residue and everything was fixed....the pads still rub but its almost negligible. and i was also told that there will be a small amount of rubbing. does anyone notice that too? when i have my front wheel off the ground and give it a lil spin it usually takes a few rotations before succumbing to the friction of the pads. i was also able to ride a bit yesterday and my brakes didn't overheat as before(it actually started smoking and locked up).

so if anyone is changing their brake fluid or any brake parts and find the brakes seizing up or are very hard to pull in after a couple pumps check the tiny hole in the master cylinder (should be two). this was actually a great learning experience for me and i found that my caliper was broken(the piece that was attached to my fork was split in half). this is just one possible cause...it could also be messed up piston or piston seals

hopefully i'm done with maintenance until the end of the season :) (note to self: change oil before riding again)

thanks all and ride safe