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Message started by marty62253 on 01/18/05 at 16:14:34

Title: Top end
Post by marty62253 on 01/18/05 at 16:14:34

Still getting my 2002 Savage road worthy - installed drag specialties tach over the holiday & got out for a test run.
At about 4800 rpm the tach needle starts to vibrate violently and the engine just won't go past 5000 or so.
I have reduced the white spacer to about 40% of it's original thickness. Also accessed the pilot screw - no more backfireing.
Any idea where to go next to get top end up where it belongs??
Marty

Title: Re: Top end
Post by sluggo on 01/19/05 at 18:29:38

since i've never had a tach on a thumper. lets talk in terms of mph.
top speed should be in the mid 80s give or take.
whats your speed when the tach tops out.
that would give us a better indication the problem you may be having.

know that there is little difference between 4th and 5th gear. there are others here who could give you the specifics of those numbers, me i just know there is just a small change.

who all's installed tach's and what be the numbers?
vibration a factor?

Title: Re: Top end
Post by lancer27 on 01/19/05 at 19:35:50

I have a tach on my bike as well, it is an inexpensive on, and it works fairly well up to about 5500...at which point the poor tach combined with the weak Savage ingnition renders the tach needle useless except for general readings of +/- 500 rpm. With your bikes symptoms it makes me think that your ignition system is breaking down. The carb could be involved, but with your tach jumping at only 4500 my vote is for the ignition. Years ago I had a bike that, although without a tach to see the rpm, would not rev past halfway and it turned out that the magneto was dieing on me. If it is the ignition system, then the more load you put on the engine the more it will cut out. Just sitting in the driveway and reving it, it might seem to be OK, but cuts out when driving it.
Anyway, something to consider. Can the dealer check it with a meter?

Title: Re: Top end
Post by Kropatchek on 01/20/05 at 03:23:53

Check all the connectors for tightness. As you folks will remember the systems negative has ONE connector for all.
It's under the LH cover where the CDU houses.

Follow the small wire coming from the negative of the battery.

greetz
Kropatchek ;D

Title: Re: Top end
Post by Gargoyle on 01/20/05 at 06:32:19

I have no experience with add on tachs. Even though the tach doesn't rev past 5,000 does the engine continue to rev just by your ear or mph? I ask because I am wondering if its the tach stopping on its own or the engine is actually not revving higher. I removed the white spacer adjusted the mixture screw, use a clamp on k&N filter and drag pipe and whoa baby did it run faster and in your case revved much higher.

Title: Re: Top end
Post by slavy on 01/20/05 at 08:15:51

I'd go for the ignition system. If it is fuel related problem it will show at different RPMs ,depending on the gear. If it is spark related problem it will be at certain RPMs.Does the problem exist at second ot third gear? Did You have similar problem before? If no- check everything that You touched. Check the ign. coil connectors. Check the place where You spliced the wires for the tach. If You did have the problem before- start going thru all the connectors.
Good luck!

Title: Re: Top end
Post by marty62253 on 01/20/05 at 14:58:42

I'LL TRY TO ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS AT ONE TIME...
--DOES NOT MATTER WHAT GEAR IT'S IN - DOES THE SAME THING AT SAME ENGINE SPEED
--ENGINE STOPS SPEEDING UP WHEN THE TACH DOES
--I WISH I WAS GOING SOMEWHERE NEAR 80 MPH - 70 ISH IS MORE LIKE IT
--BIKE IS NEW TO ME - BUT - I RODE IT A FEW TIMES BEFORE TINKERING & IT FEELS THE SAME AS BEFORE - ONLY DIFFERENCE IS NOW I KNOW HOW FAST THE ENGINE IS GOING
-- I THOUGHT SOMETHING WAS WRONG BEGORE INSTALLING THE TACH BECAUSE I WAS NOT REACHING THE TYPE OF SPEED I HAD BEEN READING ABOUT ON THIS SITE
--ALL CONNECTIONS SECURE - NO LOOSE WIRES, ETC.
--BATTERY CHARGED, POSTS CLEAN AND SECURELY FASTENED
-- I AGREE - I DON'T THINK IT'S CARB RELATED
--IT IS FINALLY WINTER HERE IN NEW YORK - 20 SOMETHING DEGREES & A FOOT OF SNOW COMING THIS WEEKEND - I DON'T THINK I'LL BE ROADTESTING IT AGAIN FOR A WHILE
------BUT-----
PLENTY OF TIME TO TINKER
---WHO CAN TELL ME IF/HOW TO CHECK THE IGNITION COMPONANTS?
-----THANX SO FAR - HOPE TO GET THIS SORTED OUT SOON,
MARTY

Title: Re: Top end
Post by Greg_650 on 01/20/05 at 16:28:59

You start out saying that you're getting your 2002 road worthy....what was wrong with it?

Did it go faster than 5K rpms when you got it? Or before you installed the tach?

At this point, need to know what it was like and what changed.

Title: Re: Top end
Post by marty62253 on 01/20/05 at 17:55:43

Bought it used.
Ran exacly the same way before I installed tach - just did not know what engine speed was .
Now that I know rpm's, I know something is wrong.
Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanx,
Marty

Title: Re: Top end
Post by gitarzan on 01/20/05 at 21:06:14

I've zinged my engine up past 6500 rpm in first, while leaving the hole.

Typical cruising speed will pull about 3500 to 4500 rpm depending on gear.

This bike never revs like a two stroke or anything.

Also the issue could be the valves. I had an old Honda that would get to certain RPM and then just did nothing more. I always though that maybe the valves (exhaust probably) didn't have enough spring power to allow them to reseat well before the Ignition stroke causing a loss of power. That was just a guess at the time.

Another idea, are you sure the throttle is adjusted correctly? Maybe it's set wrong and that's all the gas you can give it.

Title: Re: Top end
Post by Greg_650 on 01/21/05 at 12:14:49

marty62253 wrote:

Okay. Let's back up. I assume that you bought it thinking that it was running fine...or you bought it knowing there was a problem. Either way. But ignoring what the tach says, how does the bike run?

You say that the bike was doing 70-ish? What do you mean? Doesn't the speedo work?

Look at it this way, my bike has a tach and as a simple benchmark, it does 50 mph @ 3500 rpms in 5th gear. Does your bike do the same?

Title: Re: Top end
Post by marty62253 on 01/24/05 at 10:12:58

YUP,SOUNDS LIKE OUR BIKES HAVE THE SAME GEAR RATIOS.
MY ENGINE WILL NOT GET ANYWHERE NEAR 6500 RPM.
SIMPLY PUT.......
PUT IN FIRST GEAR, ENGAGE CLUTCH, TWIST GRIP,WATCH TACH RUN SMOOTHLY UP TO 4500 RPM AS BIKE PULLS WELL, NOW TACH NEEDLE STARTS TO SHAKE VIOLENTLY AS POWER BAND SEEMS ALL BUT GONE.
WILL STRUGGLE TO GET UP TO 5000 RPM (GIVE OR TAKE) WITH VERY LITTLE OOOMPH - THATS AS FAST AS THE ENGINE WILL GO.
SHIFT TO NEXT GEAR AND REPEAT....AFTER 5 GEARS, THAT'S IT.
IT PULLS WELL IN ALL GEARS WITHIN IT'S LIMITED POWER BAND.
THERE ARE NO FLAT SPOTS.
IT STARTS EASILY EVERY TIME. (SO FAR BETWEEN 25 AND 60 DEGREES F.)
IT JUST WON'T SPIN AS FAST AS IT SHOULD.
AND---YES, THAT IS HOW IT FELT WHEN I BOUGHT IT WITH 7500 MILES ON THE METER.
I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS NOT DESIGNED TO CRUISE IN MY NORMAL RANGE (70 - 85 ON MY INDIAN)

AGAIN, ANY HELP A BLESSING,
THANX IN ADVANCE
MARTY

Title: Re: Top end
Post by Max_Morley on 01/24/05 at 15:10:24

Marty, over on Bert's forum Richard from KS had a similiar problem and he found the carburetor slide was hanging up. His solution was a new slide and using MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) in the fuel to prevent future scoring of the slide. On a CV carburetor we request more speed, the pressure change in the intake manifold opposing the spring pressure then allows for a smooth opening of the slide preventing hesitation on acceleration. If the slide hangs up no matter what you request, that is all the faster the engine will go. Max

Title: Re: Top end
Post by Ed L. on 01/24/05 at 17:42:53

Sounds a bit like how my '02 ran when I first got it, the engine maxed out at around 4500rpm in all gears and top speed was only 75mph when hauling my big butt down the highway. Try a rejetting and less restrictive muffler, you will never get any performance out of the stock setup. Even rejetting to a 150 or 152.5 main jet with the stock muffler will really add to the top engine RPM. I rejetted to a 152.5 main, installed a sportster muffler and replaced the air filter with a high flow K+M stock type, made a big difference. ;D Of course we just got 14 inches of snow and the air temp is is near zero so I'm not expecting to get any test riding in for a while :( . Luck on you Savage,

Title: Re: Top end
Post by marty62253 on 01/29/05 at 12:49:22

HEY ED - I THINK WE ARE ALSO TALKING ON THE STRING FOR THE HARTMAN MODIFICATION.
BY YOUR WEATHER INFO, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU & I MAY BE IN THE SAME AREA.
I'M ON LONG ISLAND - WHERE ARE YOU AT ??
MARTY

Title: Re: Top end
Post by slavy on 01/29/05 at 15:13:55

The more I think about it- the more I am mad at myself for not remembering my bitter expirience in a very similar situation.
I went thru everything-ignition, connectors, battery, went thru the carburetor numerous times, tried different needle positions, different main jets, different fuel levels, rode the bike with a gas bottle on my neck to make sure there is a good gas flow.
I can not tell You how frustruated I was. Finaly I asked the owner what does he want for the bike and bought it so I can take it apart and see what is the problem-
1 TOOTH OFF ON THE CAM TIMING- caused by worn-out cam chain and bad chain tentioner.

Title: Re: Top end
Post by Ed L. on 01/30/05 at 08:58:36

Marty, Yup I'm on the other thread with you about the Hartman mod. I'm only a couple of hours from you, check a map of Pennsylvania and find Doylestown, I'm about 20 miles north along the river. we seem to share the same weather good or bad. Stay warm, Ride safe

Title: Re: Top end
Post by bobo383 on 02/01/05 at 19:05:51

No tach yet, but the title "Top End" caught my eye. I have read several posts on this site of folks barely making 85 mph on their Savage. Maybe it's the Texas air or my empty head, but riding double, my wife and I both on the Savage, we hit 85 sitting straight up on the highway and would go even faster if the clutch wasn't slipping when I opened the throttle all the way. Niether one of us are what you'd call "small". Did I just get lucky? (I mean the bike speed - I know I lucked out with the wife)

It's certainly light feeling over 80 mph and I don't do it often; but my point is it has no problem making more speed than I want even with the slippy clutch.

I have a stock pipe with the rear baffle removed (hacked out and cleaned up with a die grinder), a 155 main jet, and Greg's half-spacer on the needle. Just thinking about letting off the gas at 85 gets a quick "boom" backfire. I just repainted the bike (BLACK), and clutch plates are next. Any good recommendations on where to get the plates & springs & side cover gasket?

I'm new to bikes but been wrenching old cars forever.

Title: Re: Top end
Post by gitarzan on 02/01/05 at 19:33:41

I do 85 all the time on the way to work (during riding months, that is...)

Probably more...

There's a really great, almost always empty interstate interchange that I hit and can really slice the curve up nicely. It's shaped like a question mark, a big round curve with a squiggle at the end. It empties into the inside lane of another interstate that doesn't get congested enough to slow down since it's outbound from downtown. The cages are usually doing about 75.

I prefer to hit that a little faster than they are, since I need to cut over 4 lanes before the next exit, and since they are going to work, they usually aren't too generous. I've looked down to see 85 on the speedo before I begin to merge and have gone a little faster but by that time, I've other things to keep an eye on.

By the time I pull in the parking lot, I'm more awake than 4 cups of coffee.