SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicron
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1105495363

Message started by Chench53 on 01/11/05 at 18:02:43

Title: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicron
Post by Chench53 on 01/11/05 at 18:02:43

I let the battery on my 2002 Savage get low on water, so it died about 7 weeks ago; I pulled it out, and saw that it was only about 65% full. Filled it up, put it on the tender and charged it. Worked fine. Since then we've had a few really cold weeks here in NYC area, with temps to the low 30's.

I'm original owner, got the bike 8/02. The battery is the original stock battery, YUASA YuMicron Battery Type: YB14L-B2. So the battery is that old, plus whatever months the bike sat waiting to be sold.

I park outside, not near any electricity (unless you have a mile long extension cord) so an ongoing trickle charge is not possible. The only way to charge a battery is to pull it out and take it inside with me.

With this occurance, I will charge the battery and ride for service because I'm due for an oil change, and I had a minor oil leak at the cylinder head. So while that is all being checked out, I'll have them do a test on the battery. I expect I will need a new battery, which leads to the point of all this: should I

stick with the same YUASA YuMicron Battery Type YB14L-B2 which requires checking the water level (and which you all know is a pain in the patootie!), or
get the High Performance, Maintenance Free Battery YTX14AHL-BS which is sealed and requires less care.

I'm thinking of going to the maintenance free battery, and wondered if anyone already has, or is also thinking of the same.

Thank you for any comments.

Gerry

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by thehoghunter on 01/11/05 at 18:42:59

I have not used a maintenance free battery in a bike but from what I have read on other forums, they are worth the extra $.

If you do stick with the stock battery, look into getting a solar trickle charger.

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by Chench53 on 01/11/05 at 19:27:01

Solar Trickle charger? Sounds interestiing.... I never heard of it and a quick google search gave me this Solar Trickle Charger at JCWhitney. (http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=5095&catalogId=10101&storeId=10101&langId=-1&TID=8014524)

What a great idea! I guess I could somehow rig a way to keep the solar panel on top of the motorcycle cover which is chained to the lightpost.

Very interesting....

Thanks!

Gerry

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by Savage_Rob on 01/12/05 at 05:22:57

I've seen those but have never known anyone that used one. I'd be interested to hear some firsthand experience and thoughts on both quality and usability.

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by HotFix on 01/12/05 at 17:24:07

Chench53 wrote:

80mA, 12V charger that runs off light for only $40? That is not much more than a electric Trickle Charge Jr

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by Chench53 on 01/13/05 at 17:38:51

Yeah, I was talking to a coworker who has a few really old bikes in a non-electrified, non-heated garage and they all keep dying due to infrequent use, storage in the cold I guess. Their landlord doesn't want messy wires running out there. I showed him this and he seemed interested. I'll have to find out if he eventually gets a solar trickle charger.

I've been thinking how to incorporate it into a motorcycle cover, or where to situate it. If it works in cloudy weather, what about if it were positioned on the side. Of course, problem is when I ride off, either I leave cover chained to lightpost, or I take cover with me, or, I ride to my car and toss it in the trunk, then have to stop at car, retrieve cover before parking bike again...

I'm getting dizzy........ LOL.....

I did think more about the two batteries. I thought well, my car is maint-free... and that did it! I'm calling the Suzi dealer tomorrow to see if they have one in stock, if not I'll check other shops.

I want to ride this weekend!!!!!

Gerry

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by red2k1 on 01/13/05 at 18:39:28

You may find this battery link helpful.

http://www.batteryweb.com/motorcyclebatteryactivation.cfm

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by Chench53 on 01/14/05 at 03:25:48

Thanks red. :)

Gerry

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by slavy on 01/15/05 at 07:45:43

And here is another idea that somebody gave in a different forum. When You service the battery, connect one 8" piece of serious wire /gauge 6 for example/ to the "+" therminal. Put a twist connector at the end to prevent a short . You can use it to connect a charger ot to jump start the bike. Now every thumper I work on gets one of these.
About the battery- if the service-free one isn't terribly expencive it will be a better decidion in a long run. You will forget about the money in a week, but You will enjoy the difference couple of years.

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by lancer27 on 01/15/05 at 22:18:42

Let me put a plug in for a battery I purchased last year. It is an Odyssey brand battery that is a DRY CELL BATTERY. No fill, no maintenance at all, forever, with a life span of 7-10 years if taken care of...ie trickle charge if left sitting for any length of time during the off season. Since the cells are dry, it can be mounted upright as usual, on it's side, or even upside-down if you like. It is lite weight and comes in most any size. I bought mine on Ebay for about $64. You can go the company website and pay about $120, or to a catalog or m/c dealership and pay $170...your choice. There is a TV commercial about a guy in a DEMOLITION DERBY, who takes his battery out of the wrecked car and puts it into his street truck afterward and drives away...the battery is supposed to be tough...this is the same battery, but sized for a motorcycle. The one I bought was for the big V-twins so you know it will spin up a Savage just fine. Take a look at it and research the manufacturer. I think it is the best battery made...period.

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by Greg_650 on 01/16/05 at 06:18:48

lancer27 wrote:

That's a "dry" cell and not a "gel" cell battery, right? Is it possibly shorter (less tall) than the stock one too?

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by Paladin on 01/16/05 at 10:09:52

Putting on my Skeptical Technician Hat I did a little checking (http://www.nlectc.org/txtfiles/batteryguide/ba-type.htm) and found that a gel cell battery *is* classified as a "dry" cell battery.

The Yuasa High Performance, Maintenance Free battery for the Savage is the YTX14AHL-BS rated at 12AH / 210 CCA. It is 5 5/16" x 3 1/2" x 6 9/16".

The Odyssey PC545 is rated at 12AH / 170CCA -- a little less (not that you will be drawing 210 or 170 amps thru the Savage's wiring!) It is 7" x 3.37" x 5.17" so it probably will physically fit in the stock location -- on it's side as it's length is 7" while the Yuasa is 6.57" tall.

The Odyssey is a tougher battery, designed to last longer under greater abuse, with a claimed weight of 5.7kg. vs. the Yuasa's 3.5kg..

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by lancer27 on 01/16/05 at 10:28:26

The Odyssey is a DRY CELL, not a gel cell, and the one I have was just slightly larger than the stock battery...it seems like the length was about 1/2" longer. I thought it was about 6 3/4", but I could be wrong..........I found the brochure that came with the battery. It is the PC545 and the stated size is: L=7 1/32", D=3 13/32", H=5 3/16". Essentially what Paladin posted.
I did not have a problem with the mounting since I had already removed the entire air box and all but the base mounting plate for the battery. I use a couple of small bungee's to hold it for now until I move it back and up into the corner of the frame by the rear fender. A dry cell creates a few options for mounting which are not possible with a standard battery. I like it.

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by Paladin on 01/16/05 at 18:29:32

Quote:

author=http://www.recoverygear.com/odysseyquestions.html

Are these gel cells? What's the difference?
No, the ODYSSEY® is NOT a gel cell. It is an absorbed electrolyte type battery, which means that there is no free acid inside the battery; all of the acid is kept absorbed in the glass mat separators. These separators serve to keep the positive and negative plates apart.
The key difference between the gel cell and the absorbed glass mat (AGM) cell lies in the fact that in the AGM cell (such as the ODYSSEY®), all of the electrolyte is in the separators, as opposed to the gel cell where the acid is within the cells in a gel form. In fact, if the ODYSSEY® battery were to split open, there would be no acid spillage! That is why we call the ODYSSEY® a dry cell!

And the page I previously cited:

Quote:

author=http://www.nlectc.org/txtfiles/batteryguide/ba-type.htm

2.1.2 Wet vs. Dry

"Wet" cells refer to galvanic cells where the electrolyte is liquid in form and is allowed to flow freely within the cell casing. Wet batteries are often sensitive to the orientation of the battery. For example, if a wet cell is oriented such that a gas pocket accumulates around one of the electrodes, the cell will not produce current. Most automobile batteries are wet cells.

"Dry" cells are cells that use a solid or powdery electrolyte. These kind of electrolytes use the ambient moisture in the air to complete the chemical process. Cells with liquid electrolyte can be classified as "dry" if the electrolyte is immobilized by some mechanism, such as by gelling it or by holding it in place with an absorbent substance such as paper.

The Odyssey, is not a gel cell, but it is a lead-acid battery. It is not a dry cell that it uses a solid or powdery elecrolyte -- it is a "dry" cell in that it has the liquid elecrolyte immobilized. Not by being made into a gel, but by being held absorbed in a glass mat.

If I was dirt riding it would be in my dirt bike (especially if the dirt bike was a Savage Scrambler :o .) If I were in the frigid North where the long shelf life and ability to function below freezing mattered I would consider one. If you can get one cheap it would make for a worry free battery; even if it is not quite sized to fit the stock battery box. It also has the ability to take a fast charge that would toast a gel cell.

While interesting, IMO it is overkill for a California street bike that will never be parked for more than a couple of days. I'll be sending off for a Yuasa High Performance Maintenance Free (YTX14AHL-BS) in a week or two.

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by Paladin on 01/16/05 at 18:32:47

Chench53 wrote:

Yeah, I was talking to a coworker who has a few really old bikes in a non-electrified, non-heated garage and they all keep dying due to infrequent use, storage in the cold I guess.....

The Odyssey Drycell (tm) batteries, according to the maker, should sit all winter and still retain starting power.

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by Paladin on 01/16/05 at 19:02:10

Chench53 wrote:

...

stick with the same YUASA YuMicron Battery Type YB14L-B2 which requires checking the water level (and which you all know is a pain in the patootie!), or
get the High Performance, Maintenance Free Battery YTX14AHL-BS which is sealed and requires less care.

I'm thinking of going to the maintenance free battery, and wondered if anyone already has, or is also thinking of the same.

My bike is hard starting -- I figured out it's 'cause the battery is near dead. The previous owner had let the water get low over the four years/5000 miles. First start in the morning sometimes needs a little boost.

This thread got my thinking and checking -- Pep Boys has a conventional battery for about $35, Kragen had a "maintainence free" (under normal conditions) but not actually sealed for $50. BikeBandit.com has the YTX14AHL-BS for $55 plus $6 shipping. I'll get it next week. This week I'm working on my video projector.

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by Chench53 on 01/16/05 at 19:35:41

Wow, lots of good info. Ii did get the The YUASA High Performance, Maintenance Free battery for the Savage which is the YTX14AHL-BS as Paladin noted.

My bike started up fast, even in the cold - it was 31 degrees. Started up like it hasn't done in a long time!! :)And I got in my first ride of 2005, a nice 34 mile ride up and down the expressway.

I am quite satisfied. Thanks all for your comments.

Gerry

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by Savage_Rob on 01/17/05 at 06:30:31

When I first got my 98 last July, I was going over all the basic maintenance stuff and pulled the battery to check the levels and found it to be some off-brand maintenance-free battery. I figured I'd just leave well enough alone and it's always worked fine... except that one time I accidentally left the ignition in the accessory position and ran it down with the tail light. A trickle charge fixed it up and no other problems since. It's the only thing I've found that wasn't stock on the bike.

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by klx650sm2002 on 01/17/05 at 09:43:37

The stock battery on KLX is 8 Amp hrs (120c.c.a.'s), I have found an alternative which is 5mm taller but is 11.2 Amp hrs (230c.c.a,'s)is this the way to go? What is the std. rating of the LS battery?

Clive W :D

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by Paladin on 01/17/05 at 13:37:38

Standard battery is the Yuasa YB14L-B2: 12 volts, 14 amp-hours, 190-200 CCA (from graph), 5 5/16" x 3 1/2" x 6 9/16".

p.s. - Overkill is always acceptable. I would have been quite happy on a 250 for running around the city. But when I saw the Savage was only 50 pounds heavier I had to have it.

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by sluggo on 01/17/05 at 15:37:13

Paladin wrote:

p.s. - Overkill is always acceptable. I would have been quite happy on a 250 for running around the city. But when I saw the Savage was only 50 pounds heavier I had to have it.

so for just 50 lbs you met all of us.. yipee
glad you went for the extra 50lbs. ;D

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by lancer27 on 01/18/05 at 07:57:12

Yep, an extra 50 lbs...there is always just more to love.
Ya know gang....we are just a bunch of freakin nuts.....or maybe that is just the color of the shade I see through...oh well, what ever the view is, I intend to enjoy the ride until the end.

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by Paladin on 01/18/05 at 21:39:10

I came from the dirt -- rode a DT175 for a dozen years. Had two countershaft sprockets, with more and less teeth than stock -- the dirt sprocket gave a top end of about 45mph but would walk over anything; while the street sprocket gave a 65mph top end, which is barely adequate for the streets of LA.

Got married, sold the bikes. About 18 years later, car is dying, gas prices are ridiculous, wife asks, "have you considered a bike?" No plan to dirt ride anymore, so I went looking for a lightwight city bike. For L.A. that means a 250. The contenders were the Yamaha V-twin, the Honda parallel twin, and the Suzuki single. The first two had parts that poked my legs (given I was used to a skinny dirt single) but the Suzuki GZ250 fit me nice. At 302 pound not too heavy.

Then I noticed the Savage -- only 50 pounds heavier but a Thump'n 652cc to give me a safety margin for the L.A. streets. Found one for sale in Long Beach, sat on it, and knew that it was my ride.

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by klx650sm2002 on 01/19/05 at 01:44:37

When I was checking to see if a 5mm taller battery would fit KLX I moved the +ve lead to the solenoid only to see that it was corroded half way through.
With a new bigger battery and new leads starting should be transformed.

Clive W :D

Title: Re: Battery: Maintenance Free vs The Stock YuMicro
Post by klx650sm2002 on 01/19/05 at 01:54:37

I have found battery leads (mail order) rated at 110amps and 135amps, does anybody know if these are too big, too small or ok?

Clive W :D