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Message started by Doug Keely on 12/07/04 at 18:25:15

Title: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by Doug Keely on 12/07/04 at 18:25:15

I parked my Savage in the gargae for three cold days (30 to 40 degrees F).

Now it won't start. Sounds like no spark.

So thought it would be simple enough to test plug.

lol

removed the seat, removed that tank, can't get the blankety-blank plug out.

my 17mm socket is too long and will not fit all the way down on the plug due to obstruction of plug housing

any ideas?

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by Honda_fan on 12/07/04 at 19:15:39

Crack open your tool kit and use the plug wrench in it.

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by MM_Educator on 12/07/04 at 19:18:33

Imagine a 6 inch deep hole that angles as it goes down. In the center of this hole is my spark plug. There is probably one tool, somewhere in Japan, that actually was hand crafted to get theis farging plug out. Thanks for the response though. I was biginning to feel lonely.

:-)

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by PerrydaSavage on 12/08/04 at 01:03:25

Did your Savage come with the original OEM toolkit? If so, there's a plug socket in there ... it's "thin walled" to allow it to fit down in the plug recess and over the plug ... use a 17mm open-end wrench with the ring on the opposite end; slip the ring over the tapered end of the plug socket ... this'll give ya leverage and it won't slip. Thin-walled plug sockets that fit ratchet handles can be bought, but the size may depend on the brand of plug in your machine ... I use NGK plugs as reccommended in the Owner's Manual ... the Savage's plug tool fits those perfectly.
Good luck, let us know how you make out with it ... love the LS650, but 'zuki's placement of the spark plug on this machine is one of my major pet peeves ... what the F__k were those engineers thinking when they designed that particular feature? Hell, a nice exposed, easy-to-get-at spark plug couldn't have been that hard to engineer into a Big Single?

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by klx650sm2002 on 12/08/04 at 01:08:22

My plug on KLX is also down a deep hole, do the jap's do it on purpose?

Clive W :D

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by fusionfighter2000 on 12/08/04 at 05:25:02

I used a deep socket and an extension on the ratchet. i loosened the plug then used pliers to get it out.

they probably a spark plug socket in that size so it would be alot easier to pull it out.

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by MM_Educator on 12/08/04 at 06:41:48

PerryDaSavage asked if I had the OEM toolkit that came with my ride.

The answer is no.

I would like to get my hands on one though. Does anyone know where I can get one?

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by MM_Educator on 12/08/04 at 06:48:59

Detail:

I tried a 17mm Goodwrench deepsocket.
It won't fit the housing angle.

I tried an 11/16 Craftsman deepsocket. Same problem as with 17mm Goodwrench.

I tried a 19mm Goodwrench. Diameter is too big for housing. I hate when that happens ;)

I tried an 18mm Goodwrench. Same problem as with the 19mm Goodwrench.

I would like to get it out in one piece to test it.

The reason I want to check it is because I can't get it to start. It was fine and then I parked for three cold days. Then, nothing. I have abattery charger, so that's ok. The srater is doing its part. I know the problem is either the plug or the carb.

Tonite I am going to scrap getting the plug out and take a look at the carb.

I noticed a bolt on the bottom of the carb. Can I loosen that to drain the carb.

Maybe there is some water in it. ???

Thank you all

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by Savage_Rob on 12/08/04 at 07:42:17

MM_Educator wrote:

PerryDaSavage asked if I had the OEM toolkit that came with my ride.

The answer is no.

I would like to get my hands on one though. Does anyone know where I can get one?

I've seen them on eBay.

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by HotFix on 12/08/04 at 08:30:47

Get all the tools (http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/oem_schematic_view~schem_dept_id~725949~section_dept_id~1~section_dept_name~OEM+%28Stock%29+Parts~dept_type_id~2~model_dept_year~2001~model_dept_mfr~Suzuki~model_dept_id~703429~model_dept_name~LS650PK1+SAVAGE.asp#stay) with the exception of the drive belt checker for $32.89

BTW: If you NEED to get the right OEM part the first time, bikebandit.com seems like the place to go. Oh course you pay out the nose for what you get. (i.e. complete Fuel Tank Assembly for $431.33 - without speedo)

For comparison, here is a fuel tank on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4509022374&category=35586) - currently $16 with 4 hours left.

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by howlit on 12/08/04 at 10:51:40

this is another place to get OEM parts, prices seem expensive, but in somethings it might seem reasonable.
https://www.oneidasuzuki.com/store/xcart/customer/home.php?cat=324 (Accessories)
https://www.oneidasuzuki.com/store/xcart/customer/home.php?cat=742 (OEM Replacement Parts)

Sorry, I didn't notice any tool kits though. :'(

Tim

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by sunny on 12/08/04 at 15:53:36

stanley (which sells tools thru walmart) has a spark plug socket set(consists of three sockets in a pack) that has a socket that fits the plug perfect.
i've changed a plug in a parking lot while the engine was hot even. but then that was when i was still fouling plugs and had left the headcover(?) off.

and i am NOT the most adept at technical stuff. just ask greg and susan.

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by MM_Educator on 12/08/04 at 17:10:33

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

It works!

This is humorus, at least to me.

When all else fails, throw away the manual! Right?

I loosened the plug with a pair of needle nosed pliers and then removed the sucker by hand. It took a while but when I got it out I realized not only why I couldn't use the deep socket. The plug was bent over to one side and cracked at the base a little. This probably explains why the bike was running so rough.

So then, I put the new plug in and she still wouldn't fire up. After checking to make sure I had the spark plug wire secure, I decided to drain the carburator.

Like magic. She starts up and runs great!

Thank you to all of you who tried to help. I think I will still look in to getting the OEM toolkit.

Laters

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by klx650sm2002 on 12/09/04 at 00:33:00

Remember those iridium plugs Guys.

Clive W :D

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by PerrydaSavage on 12/09/04 at 02:27:32

8)Congrats on gettin' that plug out Doug ... it can be a be-atch for sure! 'Member snapping off a plug in my old Rebel once (and the Reb's plugs are real easy to get at) ... my heart sank into my shoes ... luckily a neighbour who is a mechanic was able to back the bottom end of the plug out for me using somekinda special tool? He saved the day and I was back on the road in less than an hour!
Spark plug service seems like pretty easy stuff as far as routine maintenance goes, but ya still haveta take your time and be careful or you can run into trouble ...
Clive ... I'd like to know more about those iridium plugs ... care to elaborate; brand, size, advantages and if the OEM plug wrench'll fit? Thanks!

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by klx650sm2002 on 12/09/04 at 04:23:38

Hey PerrydaSavage, look at Spark plug, should tell You everything You need to know.

Clive W :D

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by Susan on 12/09/04 at 15:56:59

sunny wrote:

Are you kidding? Not technical...you've changed spark plugs! :D :D That's more than plenty of riders could say. I know someone who takes her bike (not a Savage rider) to the dealer for EVERYTHING. Not just service but also installing aftermarket parts. She doesn't even try.

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by marty62253 on 12/13/04 at 15:39:50

Try your freindly local Sears store.
Craftsman makes an 18mm spark plug socket. $3.99
It works fine on my plug.
As for getting the plug up & out of the "hole" - that's why they put that rubber thingey inside a spark plug socket.

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by red2k1 on 12/13/04 at 18:04:24

PerryDaSavage,

A little bit about iridium plugs at the following link:
http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog/?action=vshop&vid=5&pcid=102

or here:

http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/pages/technical/iridium_spark_plugs.htm

I use the iridium plugs in my SLP Camaro, but have not tried them (one) in the Savage yet.

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by Savage_Rob on 12/14/04 at 06:07:54

I just put one in mine but haven't ridden much yet. BTW, I thought it was rather easy to get to (with the tank off, of course) using the spark plug socket in the stock toolkit. It might be more difficult if I had it in the sidestand but that $20 wood and pipe bike lift is just sweet. I use it all the time now.

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by Doug Keely on 12/14/04 at 18:02:55

My bike is running very rough since new plug installed.

:-/

I've been riding the bike again for a few days now. It's is very cold her in Norman, OK(low to mid 30's F).

I have tried letting the bike warm up for a few minutes before going anywhere, but it still acts like it is running out of gas all the time even though the tank is full.

If I use the full choke position it runs better.

Is this normal for cold weather?

???

Any ideas what to do to make the bike run more smoothly?

Thanks in advance fo rany ideas or shared experiences.

BTW: I wish my kids were as easy to fix as my bike. Where's the forum for failing fourteen year olds?

:)

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by Greg_650 on 12/17/04 at 04:26:54

sunny wrote:

A whole lotta posts to read to find this one, but I did ;D

Trust me, if you had left off the headcover, you wouldn't have been in a parking lot...you meant to say the chrome headcover headcover thingy. That would be more accurate.

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by Greg_650 on 12/17/04 at 04:41:59

Doug Keely wrote:

The old Savage is a really cold blooded beast in cold weather, but needing a full choke to run is a little extreme.

Since you've already had some carb trouble, maybe the problem is still in there. How about checking to make sure that you aren't having any air leaks between the engine and the carb? You can also consider changing the main jet to a richer size, but I think that something else is going on.

As for failing 14 yr. olds....don't feel too bad. I had 2 under achievers that managed to become failing adults too :P

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by rkutzner on 12/18/04 at 11:54:03

Hey Doug, is the carb still stock?

When it is under 40 degrees, I have to run with the choke at 1/2 or she stumbles after idle, so I know what you mean. In the winter things get leaner and I can attest that my S40 was super lean from the factory, let alone in the cold (more air/same gas = leaner).

First, adjust your idle mixture screw. Mine was set at only 1/8th out stock. My best setting here is 1.5 to 2.0 turns out. Turn it in GENTLY, then out until you have the fastest idle, then readjust the idle speed screw on the left to get back to the idle speed you had and/or like.

Other suggested mods from other members here are to knock down the white spacer on the needle by 1/2 its thickness and increase the main jet to 150 or152.5.

I did the 1/2 spacer thing and the 152.5 main. Took it out today and it runs AWESOME, no backfires and no stumbling after only a short warmup (it was 30 degrees F). May be a little rich come summer, but I eventually plan to run a Supertrapp so that by adding and removing disks during different seasons I will be able to 'adjust' the jetting externally and easily through the different seasons...at least that works on our quads !

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by rkutzner on 12/24/04 at 15:43:13

On a different note, I don't really think you have to remove the tank to get to the spark plug. Mine was off since I was adjusting the valves, but I believe if you have the stock tool kit all you need is their tools and to remove that plastic head cover thingy first.

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by gitarzan on 12/27/04 at 18:25:06

Susan wrote:

Spark Plugs? I thought it had fuel injection instead? :P

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by gitarzan on 12/27/04 at 20:34:01

Tool Kit on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=35591&item=4514828151&rd=1

Title: Re: Spark Plug Removal Madness
Post by Paladin on 12/28/04 at 16:29:45

I will be bidding on the tool kit, seeing as I am missing mine. (Will likely be a little late to work Monday)