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Message started by Paladin on 12/01/04 at 19:39:57

Title: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by Paladin on 12/01/04 at 19:39:57

I've seen a few bikes with the rear turn signals re-wired as running lights. Bassman29 mentioned that in Illinois he would need red lenses to be legal. While posting pictures I noticed that Riso has such red lenses in Rome:

http://savage.andruschak.net/riso1.jpg

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by thehoghunter on 12/01/04 at 19:46:15

If you can't find red lenses that actually replace the yellow back signals, you can get the H-D red lens and cut off the sides, it will go inside the yellow OEM Savage lenses. They then will glow red (not amber or orange). Works great. I used the front turn signal internals from my bike to do this for my wife's Savage.

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by cphilip on 12/02/04 at 07:23:07

I don't quite understand how he would be legal in one sense but yet not be illegal in another. DOT requires turns to be Yellow with a specific surface area of that in reflective. So if he changes to red to comply with the running lights rear legality he would by default then also be out of complaince with the turn signal yellow requirement. All states, at least at minumum, default to DOT regulations.... Because they have too... So I cannot comprehend why if they are running lights as well as the turns he would end up legal by changing them to red. Unless he plans on using something else as the turns. Now note that the front turns are indeed yellow and are running lights already. So the only reason for red rear is to indicate that its the back of the bike. But the tail lamp and its red reflective surface already takes care of that. So it makes no sense to me why any state would require that if the rear turns were "always lighted" they need to be red. It would by default make the turns out of compliance by not being yellow while blinking.

Rome? well thats a whole nudder country so I got no idea what they want in the rear.... but Illinois should not be so different from DOT I would think. Confuses me that he said they were.

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by Paladin on 12/02/04 at 08:35:22

California Vehicle Code:

24953. (a) Any turn signal system used to give a signal of intention to turn right or left shall project a flashing white or amber light visible to the front and a flashing red or amber light visible to the rear.

I'm allowed to change my lenses to red.

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by Max_Morley on 12/02/04 at 08:45:25

Yes DOT reuirements are for RED stop and Amber or RED for turn. In the USA for years we made the wiring simplier by using a double filament bulb behind a RED lense to get low wattage running and high wattage or bright turn/stop. Voltage supply was switched in the turn signal curcuit so only one wire was needed for brake or turn light. Europe has traditionally used separate lamps for turn amber and they require a wire for each lamp. My new Colorado PU has separate amber turn signals ala Europe, but I think Buick and Cadillac used them in the late 70's early 80's in the first version of the X-bodied car. Chev and Pontiac built on the same platform used traditional lenses. Next time you are in a large parking lot look to see how they vary from vehicle to vehicle. Want more RED on the back of your Savage, use RED LED strips that attach under license plate screws. Most are wired off the tail/stop lamp circuit so will glow not so bright until the stop lamp it energized, then the will go bright. Also expect to see more LED options in the future, the technology there is really moving forward fast. There is a remarkable difference between the first LED flashlights and the current ones, lots brighter and less $. One article I read thought by end of this decade we will see LED headlamps on high end vehciles. :D

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by Paladin on 12/02/04 at 10:26:25

I don't want extra lights. But I would like the existing turn signals to be run/turn/stop lights. For that I would need red lenses.

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by Savage_Rob on 12/02/04 at 11:02:35

Paladin wrote:

I don't want extra lights. But I would like the existing turn signals to be run/turn/stop lights. For that I would need red lenses.

Yeah, I think I'd like to do that too.

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by Greg_650 on 12/02/04 at 14:19:10

We have the combination amber running/turn lights in the back.

I went and checked at the dealer to see if the individual parts for the signals were available...specifically I wanted the sockets which need to be 3 wire from the front signals. I was told that I'd have to buy the entire lamp assembly at about $67...not good.

So I took the whole fender rail assembly off, disaasembled the turn signals and went to the auto parts store with the stock 2 wire socket. There, hanging on a hook I found a replacement 3 wire socket (for a Ford, I think) that was a pretty close match in size, etc.

Went home, added another +12 wire from the tail light, and put it all back together. It cost me less than $5 for each light. I think the bulbs that I'm using are the old standard 1157s, too.

And yes, I've since had it inspected in NC with no trouble.

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by rkutzner on 12/02/04 at 14:54:57

Rear can def be amber or red. Look at cars, many American cars/trucks are all red in back, many foriegn are amber....

....what about the LED kits out there? THey're around $50 but I think they use green LEDs (comes out red through the amber?) and act as running AND brake lights with the turn signal overriding both....in amber.

http://beta.cruisercustomizing.com/list.cfm?manufacturer_ID=223&model_ID=0

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by Greg_650 on 12/02/04 at 15:02:55

rkutzner wrote:

Okay, you have the option of $5 or $50. LEDs are really great (low power consumption and heat), and if you want to spend the money, go for it. But to get running lights IN the stock turnsignal lamp on the rear, you still have to pull a 3rd wire for the power from the lighting circuit.

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by sluggo on 12/02/04 at 15:46:07

here in washington state no signals are required yipee.
the only requirement is that "you signal".

my 30 plus years of riding experience has shown me cages don't see the machine let alone the signals.

so dont be surprised when you almost get runover making a turn. just be prepared to not make the turn and keep going straight untill it's safe to do so.

after i bobbed thumper i added a couple of red running lights attached to the wheel alingment bolts to serve as addition brake lights. note the license plate covers up the shock offset for belt drive. as you can see i'm in need of a new rear tire. i'm on santa's nice list and hopefully he bring me my new dunlop k555
the only unlawful mod has been the removal of the right side mirror. i did that on one of my sliding it on down the road incidents. ok there have been several. but hey i'm ok. poor ole thumper has gotten beat up though.
http://predator.bikepics.com/pics/suzuki-savage-04-bikepics-248318.jpg

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by cphilip on 12/03/04 at 07:38:24

Paladin wrote:

Ah yes. Good stuff. So Red OR Amber... but the operative word now is "allowed". You are apparently also allowed to use Amber which you already have.

The white allowance for the front flashers sort of suprises me too. Learn something new every day! But of course that might be state specific I suppose.

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by cphilip on 12/03/04 at 07:43:51

Paladin wrote:

I don't want extra lights. But I would like the existing turn signals to be run/turn/stop lights. For that I would need red lenses.

Ok I finaly see what your up to. You want a triple use for them and the important part is you want them also to really brighten up as extra brake lights. So thats the part that really makes you want to use Red lenses. Got it! Interesting. So you want triple elements? How do you plan to solve that? Is there such a beast?

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by Paladin on 12/03/04 at 09:49:33

Replace the socket and bulb with a dual filament.
Wire the low wattage filiment to the running light lead going to the taillight. The high wattage filament needs to follow the brake light and the turn signal (blinking off even when the brake light lead is hot.) A small DPST relay would do the trick -- coil across the turn lead, turn lead to NO, brake to NC, lamp to COM.

Amber is not allowed for the brake light part, so I can either do the $50 green LED thing posted by rkutzner; or do it my way with gated bulbs. Functionally the big difference would be that my way results in red lenses, which IMO look better. Cost difference would depend on the cost of the red lenses.

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by cphilip on 12/03/04 at 11:04:13

Well.... I do know a guy out in your area in California that makes such things as this from an OEM part. He does mostly Scooter reproductions and such. I buy some things from him from time to time and he does great work.... not certain it would be cost effective for just a few but it might be doable... it might be something you could consider. He needs one to cast it. Clauss Studio's is the name. Greg Clauss. He should have a web site if you search that out.

Ah...here it is. And this is just up his alley too..

http://www.claussstudios.com/index.html

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by Greg_650 on 12/04/04 at 13:43:10

I don't quite get it. It is easy to add running light to the turn signals...a different socket and an extra wire. Done. No relays needed....but why would you want to override the turn signal function when the brakes are on? Why not just add some additional red lights and connect them to the brake light?

And no, never heard of 3 filament bulbs either....

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by Paladin on 12/04/04 at 14:42:47

Basically because I'm a pig headed technician. And explaining it to the wife I realized I was wrong, a single relay wouldn't work. I'll have to make a solid state exclusive OR gate.

I want it to look nearly stock, just red lenses rather than amber. No additional lights. I want the tail light and the two side lights to be a low lumination red while running. Braking I want all three to brighten. The turn signal will brighten it's side, unless the brake light is on in which case it will dim it's side. Same as an older car with the two filament bulbs in the tail lights.

The LED kit found by rkutzner will do exactly what I want -- except with amber lenses. May have to go that route if I cannot find the parts to make the gate -- a lot of electronics are no longer manufactured.

----------aside----------------
Back in the late '50's early '60's we (Rockers) mocked the Mods with their scooters wired up like Christmas trees. I carry a dislike for extra lights to this day.

Boolean logic: in, in, out:
AND OR ExclusiveOR
000 000 000
100 101 101
010 011 011
111 111 110

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by cphilip on 12/04/04 at 19:30:19

Well I think at least Clauss can do you the red lenses pretty cheap. Take a look at his site and you will see. He specializes in one of's as well.

I have bought many things from him and in once case had him make something for a few of us Lambretta guys. He is good. So don't sweat the small thing like the Red lense. He can do that for you pretty cheap I think

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by Greg_650 on 12/05/04 at 05:32:18

Paladin wrote:

Basically because I'm a pig headed technician. And explaining it to the wife I realized I was wrong, a single relay wouldn't work. I'll have to make a solid state exclusive OR gate.

Interesting. I'm a pig headed technician too. I just prefer simplicity :)

Quote:

Boolean logic: in, in, out:
AND OR ExclusiveOR
000 000 000
100 101 101
010 011 011
111 111 110

Boy, that one takes me back to school. Hmmm, let's see. A Boolean AND, OR, and XOR. Whew. Where's my old book? AND works like "either/or" and OR works like addition, and XOR is the opposite of OR. Ahhhhhhhh!

Think that I'll just pull another wire and add a bulb ::)

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by klx650sm2002 on 12/05/04 at 05:51:36

Yes, trigered some momories from college that i thought i'd forgotton.

Clive W :D

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by thehoghunter on 12/06/04 at 08:36:16

Pics of turn signal conversion to be a running light - note that I have 2 Savage so using the front internals of the one bike for the rear of the other was cheap for me. You could probably find the front turn signals cheap at junk yards, e-Bay,... I don't know how much they sockets are from the dealership.

http://www.bikepics.com/members/thehoghunter/96savage/

Note with the lights on - left turn signal has red lense inside - right does not (to show difference).

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by red2k1 on 12/16/04 at 07:02:54

Had a similar objective to Paladin, but solved it differently.

I cannot stand amber lenses so first switched to clear lenses all around with amber bulbs up front and red glass bulbs in rear. Just have running lights and turn signal though --- was not interested in an additional brake light because I have a brake light spinner on my travel trunk that simply stays attached.

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by copterpilot2k4 on 01/17/05 at 17:09:46

go to the auto store and get the candy red transparent spray paint. paint the bulb or the whole lens. i did this with my jeep. looks sharp. im gonna do it to my yellow 97 when i get back to fl

Title: Re: Red rear turn signal lenses
Post by Gargoyle on 01/18/05 at 08:01:27

I have been thinking of the same thing. In Texas rear running lights must be red. A guy in our club had blue lights to look cool and was stopped and ticketed. Then he found out that they must be red for running lights. I just decided to not mess with changing lenses or bulbs and get a led license plate frame. They are running/brake light and easy to install.