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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Aerodynamic front fender? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1098514971 Message started by PRH111 on 10/23/04 at 00:02:51 |
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Title: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by PRH111 on 10/23/04 at 00:02:51 Anyone ever seen aerodynamic front fenders? I'd love to get ahold of something which encases the front wheel more and at the same time is shaped to offer some downforce at speed. The stock fender happens to be positioned just right to create front end lift and near maximal drag. |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by Paladin on 10/23/04 at 08:18:46 Are you talking about something like this yellow fender: http://www.andruschak.net/savage/Full_Front_Fender.jpg This was spotted in this thread: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1097742002 You might ask Sluggo about how to contact Max and ask him what and where he got it. |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by AL_DOWN_UNDER on 10/23/04 at 14:47:18 HOW FAST ARE YOU PLANNING ON GOING |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by sluggo on 10/23/04 at 16:08:06 hey, that's my front wheel. :o and max's yellow fender. i don't believe the fender will cause the problem you describe. with the gearing 85-90mph tops been there, done that, got the tee shirt. didn't feel like it was a problem.. it's the gvw that's a problem at high speed. wanna go faster get a different bike. ;) but never give up your thumper, there is nothing like it out there now if you want a sleeker look that's a whole nother story. fyi max does post here so he may well chime in on the subject. he does have a sweet looking bagger and will be swapping out his rear fender for one like the front. and believe me if max gives advise TAKE IT. he knows of what he speaks. I on the other hand only knows of what i have actually done. like push starting, yes it can be done. starting from a stop with no clutch, wild ride but doable. sliding it down the road on the rear fender. It's called a high ho silver away. dont try that at home boy's and girls. 8) enjoy buy fuel it's the accessory the bike loves the most. SINGLES RULE, HARLEY'S DROOL. |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by Paladin on 10/23/04 at 21:55:50 sluggo wrote:
At least you know people look at and remember your photos. ;D While I will most likely not ride in the rain I will be riding after a rain on wet streets. If I find I am throwing too much water from the front tire onto myself I may check out the fuller fender of Max's Bagger. I also noticed the box over what used to be the pillion. |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by Max_Morley on 10/23/04 at 22:28:15 Front fender came from J & P cycles part # 13-200 and fits a HD dyna softail, wideglide and 4 spd FXWD models. You might find something at a swap meet with that info. Had to weld shut and redrill the mounting holes. The fiberglass fender for the same bikes comes undrilled as I remember but the man I bought it through had been less than happy with the glass one. 1999 era, things may have changed. Then I cut the sissybar off at fender top height and used the remaining solid steel uprights to fashion the rear bar suppport for a package rack in lieu of the rear pillion. Front support is cantilivered off the rack and uses the rubber pads from the pillion pad on the same spots. I've got a GIVI trunk quick detach plate mounted on it. First version used a Honda trail 90 rack, current is unknown donor, came from Hayden Lake ID salvage yard for $5. Fender cuts about 95% of the behind the windscreen spray from the bike and rider. Still some that runs up fender and the wind forces out along the sides in inclement weather. I rode to the 2003 FSSNOC Rally in Lander WY in 2 days of rain and wet snow and I do not think any fender would have been 100%. Indian Head light from Flanders folks, bars, lights and paint in CA. Max :) |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by Max_Morley on 10/23/04 at 22:30:55 Too me the fender & fork combo that would look sweet is the Suzuki GZ 250 one. Maybe someday I''l find one in a Salvage yard and see if it would work. Max |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by Diane on 10/23/04 at 23:33:49 sluggo wrote:
I love it! Can't wait to use this one on my Harley Drooling boyfriend and his buddies. He drooled all over his Dyna Wide Glide so much at the dealership when he bought it that they managed to get him to sign on the dotted line with no money down, 16% interest for 9 years. That bike ain't worth what he owes on it! |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by Greg_650 on 10/24/04 at 06:22:37 PRH111 wrote:
Oh, come on. The fender is small. It is way too aerodynamic already. You can't go through a puddle of spit without getting your feet wet, and there is hardly enough room to get your finger between the tire and the fender anyway. So I gotta wonder just how much ram air force will be needed to achieve lift off...certainly more speed than a Savage can do. As for maximal drag...better move those pegs to the rear, install some cafe bars and a fly screen, and then lay on the tank when you ride. After that, you can start considering any drag created by the fender :P Hmmm...I wonder if an air dam would help ??? |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by Greg_650 on 10/24/04 at 06:33:43 Max_Morley wrote:
Hi Max, how come no answer to my last email ??? Anyway, a GZ250 fender is a nice fender. That was my spouse's first bike. The fender is styled nicely and does have better wet protection than a Savage fender. To compensate on our Savages, I installed a couple JCW mudflaps on the front ($5 per pair). They do help on smalll splashes of water and keep more dirt off the engine, too. As for fitting a GZ fender on a Savage? I dunno. A GZ has a 17 inch front wheel so the circumference is too small to match the Savage 19 inch correctly. Might work, but might look wierd, too :-/ |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by klx650sm2002 on 10/24/04 at 07:22:15 I went from a 21" to a 17" = 110mm less diameter, down to 69mm trail. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by Greg_650 on 10/24/04 at 07:36:11 klx650sm2002 wrote:
On your bike, that looks good. On a Savage, I think you'd have to decrease the rake to make it work or you'd just drop the front end an inch and feel more bumps :-/ |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by klx650sm2002 on 10/24/04 at 07:54:12 Yes. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by PRH111 on 10/24/04 at 11:43:51 That yellow fender would ADD to drag. I do have a very small windscreen only marginally larger than a sport bike's windscreen. I don't intend on creating a land speed record bike and completely changing the entire bike for improving aerodynamics but I would like to make any small improvements I can. Saying that just due to a small amount of drag at the front I should completely change the entire bike is akin to saying for those who want a K&N, higher flow muffler, and bigger jets that those people should stop playing around with "insignificant" parts and just get the motor over-bored with higher compression pistons, have the head fully ported by a reputable race shop, and have a higher lift/higher duration billet cam shaft machined. I have ridden without the front fender for a week as an experiment and I did notice a subtle difference in front end "weight" at highway speeds. Remember a 350lb bike will not require an exceptionally high speed for a modest amount of lift to cause instability. Lift is a function of frontal surface area (low in bikes), Cd, and velocity. Therefore a 700lb bike and 350lb bike could potentionally generate the same lift at the front wheel at the same speed (if all other factors are essentially the same) therefore the lighter bike will suffer more. A little change in Cd would also have a positive impact in gas mileage. |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by PRH111 on 10/24/04 at 22:42:54 Allright, I have found something that is essentially what I had envisioned. The Suzuki Hayabusa's front fender. The rear and front are at the same height and the sides are even as well to more effectively enclose the fender. The main thing is that the fenders on most sportbikes have the front and rear at nearly the same height above ground level such that there will be less of a "scooping" action as the fender travels against the wind. |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by sluggo on 10/24/04 at 23:48:55 honestly now, i believe there's some serious "overthinking" going on here. the whole point of riding is to RIDE RIDE RIDE. if aerodynamics played that big a part in the whole equation then the machines we ride would be a whole lot different. bottom line here is the drag your body creates is a much bigger factor than any lift that may or may not be created by a fender. :-/ now if appearance is the issue do whatever floats your boat and post the pics. i'm counting on you riders is the southern climate zone to get me through the cold winter here up in central washington. i will ride at every opportunity and regale you with the the details as i'm much better at telling a story than i am at technical details. i don't care how you raised and slaughtered the cow, just let me enjoy the steak. ;D |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by Greg_650 on 10/25/04 at 02:40:54 PRH111 wrote:
I have done the insignificant parts and would really like to do the rest if possible ::) but my goal is to have a stronger engine to do what the Savage is intended. Cruising at highway speeds is not what the Savage is intended to do or what I like to do. Besides highways suck and I avoid them anytime I can. |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by PRH111 on 10/26/04 at 00:14:01 sluggo wrote:
I enjoy tinkering and thinking about what I can modify just as much as the ride but here in the Puget Sound area sometimes it is difficult to enjoy the ride with all the traffic around. I cannot do much with the drag created from my body and I intend to put on more size therefore it becomes even MORE important for me to take care of what little things I can for reducing drag on the bike. It is easier/cheaper for me to find a universal fender that fits my needs rather than to redesign many of the other non-optimized for aerodynamics components. Remember it is the sum of the parts that must be considered. I like to take something simple, small, and normally considered "insignificant" and then make whatever modifications I can to improve upon the compromises made by the factory to suit my particular tastes. Some people prefer to have saddle bags and add highway bars. Some people use the bike as an interim/learner's bike. Me, I want to modify it such that I never outgrow or become tired of the bike. I modify my car(s), my mtn bike, my computer, my aquarium, my stereo, etc...and the things I do may be small and insignificant to some people but to me I am happy with the changes I make even if performance/efficiency is only improved by 1%. |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by sluggo on 10/27/04 at 00:02:44 yo resident nerd. "Remember it is the sum of the parts that must be considered." not to be harsh i speak with no malice in my heart. do you not know of or understand the theory of gestalt. "the whole is greater than the sum of the parts". nothing could be truer in the case of a savage. it' a light weight machine loaded down with plastic chromed parts, got the famous oil plug leak, speedo rattles, got an uncomfortable seat, all these things and more. there are many other better built machines yet we love our thumpers and wouldn't ride anything else. so the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. tinker away on the issues i mentioned. once you solve those problems that's where you will get your 1 percent gain. so having said that i guess being on the rainy side of the state gives ya more time to think about tinkering than riding ;) so drag your self proclaimed nerd butt over here to central washington to go riding with max and me. oh, pick up wd from puyallup on the way. he posts on bert's site fyi even as a stock machine you will never out grow it once you get it in your blood. consider this i got my last thumper in tacoma in 81 a gn 400 that i kept completely stock with the exception of removing the turn indicators i put 98,000 miles on it before it died, (it was my daily driver in los angeles) i then went out and found another thumper. i've put almost 5k on it since july. been down on it (i hate to admit it) twice. both me screwing around on it. Thank goodness i stripped all the plastic parts off it before i went down. still looking to fix that baseball sized dent in the tank. darn i'm rambling again, didnt get a chance to ride this week well except for that short ride trying out jon d's chopper seat. THANKS AGAIN JON. bottom line enjoy the thumper. if tinkering with things that don't really matter makes ya happy. GO FOR IT. :) THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF RIDERS, THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN DOWN, AND THOSE WHO WILL GO DOWN. :'( |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by Savage_Rob on 10/27/04 at 06:46:52 Heh, the only reason I'd change the fenders would be to reduce the amount of crud that gets thrown back at the bike when you get onto wet stuff. A mudflap would do just as well (maybe better) as long as it doesn't look too bad. So far as aerodynamic changes, I was pleasantly surprised to find that using a rear mounted trunk and removing my soft saddlebags noticeably reduced drag. I did not expect to be able to feel a difference. I just wanted a lockable storage option. I must note however, that I can feel strong crosswinds slightly more too - though they are less prevalent than the normal wind friction of the everyday ride. |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by Greg_650 on 10/27/04 at 11:45:45 Savage_Rob wrote:
Mud? Did I hear the words, mud and mudflap? Don't like crap on your engine or swingarm? Have I got news for you.... JC Whitney for $5 per pair. I made the steel strap on the front fender to clean it up...this is my spouse's front fender. http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/215/215131/folders/156030/1286465Mudflap01web.jpg This one was trickier, and I burned up quite a few precious brain cells to figure it out. This rear mudflap is mounted on the inside to keep crap off my swingarm (I don't care what goes behind me) :o http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/215/215131/folders/156030/1286463MudFlap03web.jpg |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by Greg_650 on 10/27/04 at 11:49:57 BTW - if you notice in the top picture...the bike is sitting on plastic sheeting on a carpeted floor. That's right, I had my priorities straight and our 2 bikes spent that winter in a spare bedroom.... :P |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by Savage_Rob on 10/27/04 at 12:48:37 Muchos gracias! |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by Greg_650 on 10/27/04 at 12:50:52 Si... |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by PRH111 on 10/27/04 at 21:20:24 sluggo wrote:
What is the whole without the parts? Without a wheel the motorcycle is worthless (unless you do a wheelie all day long but turning could be tricky), without an oil pump how long would the whole engine last? But, I digress, we are not here to debate the semantics of my diatribe on why I would want an aerodynamic fender. 1. I have a 2003 Savage and as far as my inspections and research (from the other message board) indicate I should not have the oil leak problem. 2. I haven't seen my speedo rattling...but it is hard to watch anyways when you ride with a full face helmet. 3. Uncomfortable? Hell, try riding on a road bicycle for a century ride...now that is an uncomfortable seat. Hell, I had to switch to a mtn bike after a few months and even that thing has a seat which makes the savage seat seem like a lazy boy recliner. ...different folks, different strokes. It has been a while since I stopped by WD's place down in south hill. If he gets his ride running I may have to see if he wants to head out to central WA someday. BTW- what area of central? Tri-cities or Yakima or what? I do want to take a nice little trip on the Savage one day (mostly been using it for commuting and the occassional canyon ride). |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by sluggo on 10/28/04 at 00:49:45 i'm in moses lake well not in the lake, near the lake. whats your 20? my boss and i did a chinook pass thing on oct 7, i think a early spring ride in that vicinity would be neat think 4 savages... could be this. whe meet at top of chinook ride to st helens, back up to highway junction then spit up. we go back over white. you guys back to tacoma the other way. you will have the plug leak unless it's been fixed before. i think suzuki knows all about it and uses it to sell some service work. there's alot more riders on savages that dont know of the formums and could well get taken in . the seat thing i just put on a chopper seat for short trips. overstuffed will bolt back on in moments for the longer stuff. wheelies well one event of watching my thumper bounce on down the road was good enough for me. speedo. i'm considering losing it all together call me crazy. just find a way to rig a trip meter. i was well aware of all these issues before purchase. minor inconvience to get the type of machine i wanted. i guess when i'm done i want it to be a schwin bike with a big ole motor on it. :D i want it to be steet legal. just barely. here's a "project" for ya or anybody out there. how do you figgure out what 60 mph is without a speedo. look forward to hooking up with ya. sluggo |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by Greg_650 on 10/28/04 at 03:03:10 sluggo wrote:
Use a tach? GPS? Stop watch? Count the wheel revolutions? Count the engine "thumps" ? ::) |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by Tony on 10/28/04 at 04:27:12 How about just using a regular watch. 1 minute/mile marker |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by Greg_650 on 10/28/04 at 05:41:52 How about following others doing 60? |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by Savage_Rob on 10/28/04 at 05:48:18 There ya go, just stick with traffic. |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by PRH111 on 10/28/04 at 08:14:46 I'm up near Seattle in Des Moines. Savage_Rob wrote:
Around here you would have to stick with the "slow" traffic to only do 60 and even then you'll probably end up going 65. I usually just flow with traffic but occassionally glance down at my speedo to see that I am going 70mph when I only intended on travelling at about 60mph. |
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Title: Re: Aerodynamic front fender? Post by sluggo on 10/28/04 at 09:06:13 good answers i've used most of them here's the one i use on the straight roads around grant county.. it's a variant of the 60 sec per mile. there are 15 utility poles per mile that makes 4 seconds between. makes counting easier. because counting to 60 takes way to many fingers. |
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