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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Non standard carb /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1093630556 Message started by klx650sm2002 on 08/27/04 at 11:15:56 |
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Title: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/27/04 at 11:15:56 Is anyone running or thinking of running a non standard carb', please let me know. Thanks in advance. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Greg_650 on 08/28/04 at 04:52:22 klx650sm2002 wrote:
I was thinking about running your carb. Thanks in advance :o |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/28/04 at 04:56:31 Yes FCR41 loads of adjustability from tickover to red line. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Greg_650 on 08/28/04 at 05:12:51 How much is shipping from the UK? :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/28/04 at 05:24:05 Don't know about shiping, but You might be able to get one from Sudco, make sure You get one with a "choke", people say you can use the accelerator pump but it's not the same. Over here I used Allens performance. You will need to supply carb stub dimensions, where it goes into the rubber because they make a stub that screws into the main carb' body, i sounds like a lot of hassle but the end result is worth it. I'll try and find the phone number for Allens. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/28/04 at 05:50:05 Allen's Performance R&D Ltd. Unit B9, Moorbridge Road, Bingham, Nottingham, England, NG13 8GG e-mail sales@allensperformance.co.uk phone +44(0)1949 836 733 I'm not sure how the number works, over here we drop the 44 and dial the 0. If You're not happy with this measureing stuff you could send them a inlet rubber, see what they say anyway. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/28/04 at 08:38:07 SUDCO Motorcycle Parts Distributing Are at:- 3014 Tanager Ave, Commerce, CA 90040, USA e-mail sudco@sudco.com Phone (323) 728 5407 Phone is faster,busy e-mail. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/28/04 at 08:39:32 Forgot to say they definately do do FCR's. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Mr 650 on 08/28/04 at 13:42:52 klx650sm2002 wrote:
I missed it, "FCR41" who makes this? Got a link? |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/29/04 at 04:48:19 The carb' is a Keihin, try Keihin.FCR41 or Keihin.FCR. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Greg_650 on 08/29/04 at 06:50:13 klx650sm2002 wrote:
Just got your pics. Awesomw looking bike you have there, Clive. I haven't seen that color in the KLRs or KLXs here in the US. |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Mr 650 on 08/29/04 at 08:28:58 klx650sm2002 wrote:
Thanks. Typed it in Google, took me straight to Sudco for more info. |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/29/04 at 10:18:47 Also in the Keihin.FCR area there is a FCR tuning page (7actually!). Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/29/04 at 10:21:54 Thanks for the compliment Greg Clive W :D :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 09/02/04 at 06:52:48 I had the opportunity to remove KLX's body work today so I could get at the carb' and measure it (There was a nice external oil line up the back of the engine, Greg) Here goes the carb' venturi measures 42mm, from the top of the venturi bore to the top of the carb is 58mm (the throtle cable mounts are a little higher but there lower mounting holes to get round this if needed). From the bottom of the venturi bore to the bottom of the float bowl is 75mm. The overall length of the carb body is 53mm but to this you must add the bellmouth,3 sizes available (I don't know which mine is but it is 34.5mm),and the stub,mine sticks out 15mm from the carb body and is threaded into it, this can be changed to suit. (total length of my carb' is 102.5mm). The most difficult one, I think, is that the float bowl under hangs the inlet by about 10mm, two things you could do here, if it's a problem, get a longer stub or spacer the inlet rubber away from the head. That's all for now. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Greg_650 on 09/02/04 at 15:33:32 klx650sm2002 wrote:
Finally got inside all that thermoplastic, eh? Just kidding :P I need to measure my carb (darn, I haven't done that yet?) and compare to your measures. That sounds like my next measuring project for this weekend. |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 09/06/04 at 10:21:43 Have You got around to measuring that carb yet Greg, I'm interested to see how it compares. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Greg_650 on 09/07/04 at 02:19:13 I'm sorry. With the holiday weekend, I was busy taking photographs and I completely forgot. I only glanced at my bike a couple times, and never rode it either. I'll get on it soon. |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Greg_650 on 09/12/04 at 05:43:49 klx650sm2002 wrote:
Wow. I had a heck of a time finding this :D Here's the measures, as best that I can do with the carb in the bike... http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/215/215131/folders/156030/1227395BS40.jpg |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 09/13/04 at 10:24:44 Everything looks OK to go ahead with fitting the FCR41, the closest part is the throttle cable anchorage clearance with the cylinder head cover, if it does touch it would be easy to modify or unbolt and make a new one. I expanded the pic to roughly life size and it looks like it is about 1/8th clear and You can grind 1/4 off the anchorage, If it was My 'bike I'd do it. Sorry this is late I wasn't on line last night. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Greg_650 on 09/15/04 at 02:35:16 I haven't been able to be online as much lately, either... And the FCR41 is not a CV carb, right? |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 09/15/04 at 05:37:24 Right it's a flat slide with accelerator pump which makes for good throttle responce, i.e.wheelies on the KLX. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Greg_650 on 09/16/04 at 02:43:32 Maybe I need to start checking E-bay for one of these carbs ::) |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Greg_650 on 09/19/04 at 04:00:48 I found this on Ebay. Is this the FCR41? This picture will probably disappear when someone buys it, but here goes.... :P http://i5.ebayimg.com/03/i/02/7a/fd/c9_1_b.JPG |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 09/19/04 at 04:12:52 It's definately a FCR unfortunately the size is printed on the other side, make sure You get the 41 and not a 37 or 39. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 09/19/04 at 04:18:02 the little black button is the choke. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Greg_650 on 09/19/04 at 06:52:00 klx650sm2002 wrote:
Where does the NOS connect? |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 09/19/04 at 09:28:35 Have You found out what size that FCR was ? Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Greg_650 on 09/19/04 at 09:41:47 Yes. |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 09/19/04 at 09:48:41 There are two body sizes of FCR, small 28-33 and large 35-41, different slides, needles + needle jets. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 09/19/04 at 09:59:54 What size was it then. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Greg_650 on 09/19/04 at 11:45:49 When I posted the picture, I quote me saying, "is this the FCR41?" That's cause that's what the Ebay ad stated. So, I guess so. ::) |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 09/20/04 at 05:14:57 What I can't do is say the carb' spigot will fit the carb' mounting rubber. Can give jetting which'll get You close, main 168, main air 192, needle OCEMS, I'll try to get the low speed jet and screws tomorrow. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 09/20/04 at 05:17:31 Looking at the pic does the spigot look the same as Your standard carb. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Greg_650 on 09/21/04 at 02:42:09 It looks pretty close. If I go with this carb, it'll be during the winter. No doubt some mods will be needed. |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 09/21/04 at 07:02:17 Fuel screw and slow speed air screw are both 1.25 turns out. I'll try and get slow fuel jet tomorrow. sometimes slow speed air screws are replaced with jets. Type in Keihin.FCR and find the tuning manual, v usefull. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 09/22/04 at 05:56:28 Slow fuel jet is 48. The "choke" jet is 60 though You'll probably just use whatever it comes with. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 09/25/04 at 05:18:32 Greg have You downloaded the FCR tuning pages,makes good reading, can be found on Keihin.FCR Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 10/06/04 at 10:16:40 Greg did You buy that FCR or are You holding out for a better price. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 10/06/04 at 10:20:48 I have a 34mm long rampipe You could have. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Greg_650 on 10/07/04 at 02:36:11 I haven't bought the carb yet, and I haven't really decided what I'll do to the bike this winter. In another month or so. |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 12/04/04 at 04:53:53 Hey Greg I've now done 3 mods to My FCR41, manuel tickover mix adjustment, bellmouth with 270 degree rollback and an adjustable accelerator pump. A non standard non standard carb. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Greg_650 on 12/04/04 at 13:03:05 klx650sm2002 wrote:
Way to go, Clive. How does it run now? |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 12/05/04 at 01:00:49 I have no brakes at the mo, due to changing banjo bolts and waiting for two more so might be a while till I'm out. S***y roads anyway. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 12/05/04 at 01:36:55 As well as s***y roads (200 yards from a farm) the roads have had their first salting of the winter which plays havoc with my polished aluminium wheel rims. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Greg_650 on 12/05/04 at 05:38:34 klx650sm2002 wrote:
Salt plays havoc with everything except stainless. No need corroding your bike....of course, sliding off the road plays havoc with things too.... ;) |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 12/05/04 at 05:48:41 I had a go at the offroad thing when I first got KLX and didn't like it much hence the SuperMoto thing. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Greg_650 on 12/05/04 at 05:52:07 klx650sm2002 wrote:
In my case, I gave up the off-road thing when it became harder to repair my parts than the bike's parts. :P |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 12/05/04 at 05:56:23 My ankle was between my RD125LC and a cage, got a bolt in it. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Greg_650 on 12/05/04 at 06:09:34 My rib cage was once between the ground and the gas tank. No bolts or plates, just cracked ribs ::) |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 12/05/04 at 06:15:39 Hey Greg Have you thought about biying a cylinder head so you could modify it without haveing to strip your 'bike. I like spending other peoples money. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by Greg_650 on 12/05/04 at 06:27:47 klx650sm2002 wrote:
I like spending other people's money too. Can you help with that? ::) At the moment, I can't spend money on unnecessary things...as much as I'd love to, anyway. I need to get across the country first. That is a good idea though...if I could find a good used one that doesn't have the cam journals all worn out. That and the FCR41 are still on my "to-do" list. |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 12/05/04 at 06:37:27 So cam journals are a problem then, with KLX it's auto decompressor which I have had welded and auto camchain tensioner which will be converted to manual. Does the Savage have any other nasties. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by lancer27 on 12/28/04 at 18:32:55 I am not familiar with the carb you guys are talking about, but I have replaced the stock carb on my bike with an Edelbrock flatslide, and it runs great. Took a little while to get to the right jet needle and then get it adjusted properly, but once doneit is very smooth. I had significantly modified the stock carb with larger pilot and main jets, modified needle and throttle slide for quicker response, and also added a Dial-a-jet to bring up the rear. Made a big difference in performance but not as much as the Edelbrock. Have a good New Year. |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 12/29/04 at 06:06:43 The carb we are talking about is the keihin FCR41, carb of preference for the supermoto guys. I have read lots of good things about the edelbrock on the XR 650 R site. The FCR41 is actually 42mm at the slide, what is the edelbrock? Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by lancer27 on 12/30/04 at 17:30:56 The Edelbrock I am running is a 38mm. This carb is used on both the 883 and 1200 Sportsters, stock and modified, and on stock big twins...so it is more than capable of taking care of the Savage. The needles available for the carb range from #3 -#19 I believe, and the one that works for the Savage is a #6...lots of room to grow fuel-wise. |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 12/31/04 at 08:01:31 Can You or do you know anyone who can fabricate an exhaust pipe if so you need a 1 5/8 od pipe which at 1/16 wall thickness will give a 1.5 inch (38mm) i.d., the optimum for your carb. As far as length goes 47inch tunes things in for 5000rpms and 52.2 works around 4500, 58.75 is for 4000rpms and peak torque,3700 = 63.5 inch's. These numbers are for open pipes. I you want silencing you must use a absorption type silencer (perforated tube) which has an i.d. at least 10% more diameter than the header. Hope these numbers help. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by lancer27 on 01/01/05 at 08:22:13 I am planning to build a header pipe and reverse cone megaphone for my Savage to test the power characteristics. I will probably use 3 header sizes (1 /38", 1 1/2", & 1 5/8" ID), with variable lengths from 30" to about 38", and probably 2 different sizes of the megaphone...not sure of the exact sizes yet. At this time I am MARGINALLY proficient in welding, and need to buy a MIG welder before starting the project. So, to answer you question, no I am not able to make one right now, and I do not know of anyone who makes custom pipes. However, if you call around to muffler shops in your location, you will probably find someone who is willing to do it for you...or at least get a name/number of someone else who does. Good luck, and let us all know how you make out. |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by lancer27 on 01/01/05 at 08:25:12 Forgot to mention an important item. Go to www.headersbyed.com, you will find the HOLY GRAIL of exhaust/header/muffler info. ED, has been building headers for about 40 years and knows more than you will ever see/read in any magazine or book. He explains what works and what does not....and why. Check it out, you will be amazed. |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 01/02/05 at 02:22:22 I have been designing (and re-designing) motorcycle exhausts for 20 years, specializing in 1,2 and 4 cyl both two and four stroke, mainly for sidecar racing use, but have no experience of big V8's or 12's etc.,which appears to be what Ed's site is about. My KLX pipe was made by sand packing, heating and bending to give the exact shape required, not just welding a series of bends and straights together. In my experience gas and tig are best for welding exhausts/headers. Are Your header diameters inside diameters? Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 01/02/05 at 05:32:46 If you are going to design a pipe you'll need these:- exhaust opens 64deg BBDC closes 14deg ATDC inlet opens 22deg BTDC closes 59deg ABDC Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 01/02/05 at 05:39:57 To see my pipe have a look at Posters' Picture Gallery #1a. To see some proper motorcycle exhausts go to Akrapovic. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 01/02/05 at 06:41:03 KLX's pipe is 41.25mm i.d. and 36 inch's long (before silencer)so is most efficient around 6500 (max revs 7500) http://savage.andruschak.net/klx650sm1.jpg Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by lancer27 on 01/02/05 at 15:31:26 Ah, you are the expert as well as Ed. He says that the basic principles apply regardless of the number of cylinders. Of course, with multiple cylinders there is more gas flowing so that does affect the tube volume required to move the gas at the desired velocity. It has been awhile since I studied the info he has on the site so I am kind of rusty now. No need for me to try explaining anything more since you are lightyears ahead of me. Anyway, for my part I will just do the rough work of trying different sizes and lengths. My skills are very basic so I will have to use prebent and straight tube...cut and weld...that sort of stuff. You asked about the pipes I mentioned above...the numbers listed are for inside diameter. |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 01/03/05 at 02:03:41 On a Savage pre-bent tubes are probably o.k. as it's pipe is mostly straights. If You noticed my KLX pipe didn't have any straights at all, the advantage of sand packing. If You haven't already bought the MIG go with gas as it gives more control (TIG is best but is expensive and needs a lot of experience) Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 01/10/05 at 03:51:13 Don't know what happened here http://www.jonline.org/savage/Photos/Cool_Savages/tancool1sm.jpg A poor image but a nice short pipe. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by lancer27 on 01/10/05 at 05:57:05 Nice look....I really like the angles you used on the upturn. |
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Title: Re: Non standard carb Post by klx650sm2002 on 01/10/05 at 08:25:56 I'd like to say thanks but I found it on jons site from the links page. It is so short (head to silencer) that the pulse probably goes down and up twice to work at just under 5000rpm's. If it only goes down and up once then it would be best at nearly 10000rpm's :( This Shows up on my KLX where the pipe is tuned for 6500 (two steps to spread things out a bit) but also works at 3250 for good torque, and due to the tame cams and small bore of the pipe doesn't fall down in the middle. Clive W :D |
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