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Message started by sunny on 08/06/04 at 09:48:43

Title: Converting to chain
Post by sunny on 08/06/04 at 09:48:43

you guys seem to a bit more technically oriented than the yahoo savage list i have been on.
therefore, onward to the technicalities: i really like the look of chain driven bikes. i can't afford to buy another bike, being a single mom and all that. so i was wondering about whether it was possible to convert from belt drive to chain drive.
and yeah, i was thinking about adding a kick starter too.

seriously thinking chopperish thoughts...

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by wrench on 08/06/04 at 10:19:13

> ... was wondering about whether it was possible
> to convert.. .. to chain drive... kick starter...

It could be done, the domestic Suzuki Tempter* version of the LS650 had chain. You would need to find a source of parts in Japan. The project would not be easy and certainly not inexpensive.

Regarding a kickstarter, I assume you have never tried to kickstart a big single? Forget about it.

*http://www.srbikers.com/gordon.html

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/06/04 at 10:31:35

Does anybody know if the pullys are the same as the sporty. When I was finding out that renthal don't do 1" bars i found they do a chain drive conversion for the 883. front 16-23 rear 36-63. Dont know if it fits though ???

Clive W

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by cphilip on 08/06/04 at 10:37:09

Why anyone would want to go from Belt to Chain is beyond me. Even if its for "looks"...

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/06/04 at 10:37:13

Also I heard someware, can't remember, LS400's, jap only i think have a chain drive. ???

Clive W

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/06/04 at 10:39:32

There is the option of changing the gearing.

Clive W

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by AL_DOWN_UNDER on 08/06/04 at 12:49:17

CHAIN DRIVE ARE DIRTY GREZZY NEED ADJUSTING .NEW SPROCKETS .YER WHY WOULD YOU . TRYING TO KICK OVER A 650 SINGLE WITH A 94 mm BORE AND STROKE ON A COLD MORNING SOUND LIKE FUN. I WAS BROUGHT UP ON KICK STARTERS POMY JAP AND YANK BIKES ::)AND ALL I CAN SAY IS THANK GOD FOR ELECTRIC STARTERS

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/06/04 at 13:01:10

If I had an LS I'd be looking at higher gearing to make for a more relaxed ride.

Clive W

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/06/04 at 13:07:29

There's good and bad with kick starting,pain when it doesn't work and pride when it does 8)

Clive W

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by Greg_650 on 08/07/04 at 03:23:01

sunny wrote:

Oh yeah, I've been to that other forum too....

I've read all the other replies on this topic. I know where everyone is coming from on this one, but I don't know where it can go ::) I'll give it a shot anyway.

Chain drive? I understand that it is possible to get a front sprocket to fit the engine off the shelf, but to convert the rear wheel will either take a different wheel or the resources of a machine shop. There isn't any "off the shelf" conversion for that.

But as others have said, "why chain drive?" Yes, it would be nice to swap ratios to change performance, but why do you want to buy new sprockets and chains each year? They stretch and wear. They are messy, too. How often do you want to clean the rear wheel? So, even though the belt does have an annoying squeak when it gets wet, I think it is also the next best alternative to a shaft drive.

Kick stater? Yeah, I remember those and I miss them too. However, "Thank God"! for the improvements in the electrical systems and batteries over the years because you don't want to kick start this engine (as AL said). If you really have a problem, you'll kill yourself trying. Plus, you'll need to convert the decompression system with a manual lever for it to work with the kick starter, anyway. Kick starters were useful a long time ago with smaller engines...today, hardly any street bike has one, and you won't find a conversion.

Pop starting? Have you tried that? Luckily where we live there is usually a small slope somewhere (might be a challenge in Florida). I have done a rolling pop start test on my Savage...the wife thought I was silly, of course. If you still wish for a kick starter :o, then try doing this in 1st gear....you'll see what that 94 mm piston feels like. Then, after you skid the rear tire, then try it in 2nd. Get it rolling, key on, 2nd gear, clutch in, kill switch off, and let out the clutch quickly....pop start. As long as your problem isn't related to fuel or ignition this solution is much easier than kick start, trust me.

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by Greg_650 on 08/07/04 at 03:26:35

klx650sm2002 wrote:

There's good and bad with kick starting,pain when it doesn't work and pride when it does 8)

Clive W

Ah, the old "Victory and Defeat" thing. Yep, you are right. And when it doesn't kick start, the pain isn't just in da feet ::)

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/08/04 at 09:11:11

I've tried bump starting my KLX and it didn't work, 100mm piston :'(

Clive W

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/08/04 at 09:17:13

When I was in South Africa in 92 I had a XT500 and it started first or second kick every time, sold it to my little brother when I left. :D

Clive W

Title: .Re: Converting to chain
Post by wrench on 08/08/04 at 09:32:36

> I've tried bump starting my KLX and it didn't work

With the key off and clutch 'out', put it in gear and back up the bike until it stops. This rotates the crank about 340 degrees and brings the piston up. Now, put it in 2nd or 3rd, turn the key on, and with clutch 'in' push like crazy. When you get some speed jump on the bike and let out the clutch. It should start. If you just get wheel lock, select a taller gear.

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by maria on 08/08/04 at 11:23:40

i had an XS650 chop and it had a kick start - oh what joy :-[- not - the pain when that the kickstart sprung back on a missfire - i looked very cool rolling around on the floor holding my shin. ::)

surely if you want to make that many changes to the savage wouldn't it be easier to get another bike?

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by Greg_650 on 08/09/04 at 02:41:57

I saw a pretty blue and white XS650 on Saturday. Looked brand new.

I rode a chopped Sportster that skinned my shin bone too

The idea of modifying a bike is usually "because I can", but in the case of the kickstarter on the Savage, it is "because I want to". Not gonna be possible, I believe :(

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/09/04 at 04:56:20

How thick are the centers of the front and rear pulleys, and does the LS have a cush drive or does the belt do that job.Can anybody help.

Clive W

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by Greg_650 on 08/09/04 at 08:50:54

If "cush drive" means the same as rubber bushings, then the answer is yes. The rear pulley is rubber bushing mounted to the wheel.

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/09/04 at 09:30:09

Thanks for that Greg, do You happen to know the thickness of the pulleys where they mount ??? ??? ???

Clive W

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by Greg_650 on 08/09/04 at 13:22:48

I will guess that at the mounting holes to the "hub" that it is about 5 MM or .200"

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/10/04 at 08:43:43

The .200" thickness is a little small for a 520 sprocket which needs .250", is there enough (.050") travel left on the front pulley nut. Nut or sprocket could be machined. ???

Clive W

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by Greg_650 on 08/10/04 at 14:19:26

In that "other" forum, a guy told me that he got a sprocket of the shelf at the dealer to replace the front pulley. He needed it because he was building a BSAvage ::)

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/11/04 at 08:47:19

That's good coz it's the front that is hard to get, the rears come in blanks of however many teeth and the supliers bore the spigot and and drill the
bolt holes at the correct PCD.

Clive W

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by Greg_650 on 08/11/04 at 08:53:55

Interesting idea....

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by Mr650 on 08/12/04 at 17:11:04

I would suggest you reconsider this. ???
The Savage is the 1st bike w/ a belt I have owned and I have no idea why anyone would want a chain.
1st, chain stretch means constant lubrication and adjustment and all that lube generally wind up on: your saddlebags, you and your rear wheel.
Kiss that shiny chrome good bye after 100-200 miles.
Plan on washing it every 500 even if you never ride the rain, if you want it to look like it does now and adjusting it every 1000, maybe sooner. You will have to check chain tension before each ride and get lube gunk on your hands. If this is what you really want to do, make it retro-gradable back to the belt. The possible set-ups suggested here from smaller bikes are likely to wear faster than they should if it was sized for the 650’s grunt. I predict as soon as the 1st set of sprockets wear out (in about 2500 miles), mid-season and you are looking at pulling the wheel off (instead of riding that Saturday pm) you will put that good old belt back on. But, I prefer to ride vs. work on ‘em, (and I used to ride harder than I do now). Scott

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by Greg_650 on 08/13/04 at 03:13:01

You are quite right, and I think that all this was said on the previous page....I guess that the subject has just gone on in an acedemic fashion concerning "what if". What if you wanted to change to a sprocket?

Anyone want to discuss changing to a shaft drive ??? No mess, no fuss, no adjustment.....but more weight.

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/16/04 at 07:23:16

Sunny, do You still want to convert to chain.

Clive W :D

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by Kropatchek on 08/17/04 at 08:10:48

For the chain converters there is a Savage with chain straight from the factory the LS400 Savage.
Have a look here:
http://www.geocities.com/ls400p/

Greetz
Kropatchek

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by Greg_650 on 08/17/04 at 08:48:22

Really cool.... 8)

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/17/04 at 09:29:10

You could take Your front Pulley to a breakers and find a front sprocket with the same splines off a known bike. Belt and chain I.D. would have to be the same.That's all for now.

Clive W :D

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by Greg_650 on 08/17/04 at 13:00:41

I forget the pulley ratios....too lazy to go downstairs for the book. I think the pulleys are 23 teeth front and 66 teeth rear. Just need sprockets with the same ratios.

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by Greg_650 on 08/17/04 at 14:05:59

Even with all this discussion, I find it difficult to think of removing the belt drive.

Here's mine where I've removed the belt guards (and the brackets) and also removed the rear footpegs. All welded up, Bondo filled and repainted. I also used the same ceramic paint on the pulley so the drive matched the engine.

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/215/215131/pages/543347/04GMDRear01web.jpg

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/18/04 at 05:07:04

I think the final drive is 23/68 again found on Be_Savage.

Clive W :D

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by klx650sm2002 on 08/18/04 at 05:12:15

The belt looks cool too, as well as it's other advantages.

Clive W :D

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by Greg_650 on 08/18/04 at 08:49:51

klx650sm2002 wrote:

I think the final drive is 23/68 again found on Be_Savage.

Clive W :D

Without looking in my SSM, I just guessed. That is probably right.

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by Susan on 09/14/04 at 06:03:03

This same topic just came up on the Heise forum. Someone is planning to do it. The topic is an interesting read:

Going to Chain (http://www.heise-workstations.de/ls650/Fragen/messages/37164.html)

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by Greg_650 on 09/16/04 at 03:06:02

I quote him..."no way I'm spending like $400 for another belt that only lasts me like 6000 miles the way I ride."

I'm wondering how he rides ??? Only 6000 miles? Sumpin' ain't right.

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by Susan on 09/16/04 at 05:20:29

Yeah, I noticed that too. Someone else points out that a belt doesn't cost that much either. It isn't something I'd be interested in doing -- I love the belt drive -- but I know others were interested.

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by Mr 650 on 09/16/04 at 10:08:10

Greg_650 wrote:

...
I'm wondering how he rides ??? Only 6000 miles? Sumpin' ain't right.

Must be leaning on the NOS button too often. :)

Title: Re: Converting to chain
Post by Greg_650 on 09/18/04 at 06:15:27

Mr 650 wrote:

Must be leaning on the NOS button too often. :)

Might be inhaling too much NOS too :D