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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Faster savage?? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1086132130 Message started by LondonThing-co-uk on 06/01/04 at 16:22:10 |
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Title: Faster savage?? Post by LondonThing-co-uk on 06/01/04 at 16:22:10 Anyone know and good tricks/ideas to get Savages to go faster, or acelerate quicker?, and please dont recomend 'go faster' stripes :-) lol ChrisF.. |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by klx650sm2002 on 07/01/04 at 06:25:08 The usual, pipe+jet kit. Clive W |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by Kropatchek on 07/01/04 at 10:48:42 And go downhill ;D |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by Greg_650 on 07/03/04 at 04:06:11 How about drafting behind a big rig or always riding down wind? Actually, Clive is more correct. |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by AL_DOWN_UNDER on 07/03/04 at 22:43:50 I DONT THINK THEY NEED TO ACCELERATE ANY FASTER.HOW EVER SOME MORE TOP END WOULD BE NICE. A SMALLER PULLY ON THE BACK WOULD BE GREAT FOR LONG TRIPS ON THE HIGHWAY . BUT I HAVE BEEN UNABLE TO TRACK ANY DOWN. SO IF ANY ONE KNOWS OF ANY LET US KNOW. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by Greg_650 on 07/04/04 at 04:54:45 AL_DOWN_UNDER wrote:
That's why a conversion to chain drive would be handy. Increase the rear sprocket for doing wheelies :o and decrease it for the interstate.....even a dual sprocket setup like those old Harley 250's ::) |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by klx650sm2002 on 07/05/04 at 05:13:06 You could try a taller rear tire, like a 140/90/15 instead of the std 140/80/15. That gives you 4.7 % higher gearing. Clive W |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by Greg_650 on 07/05/04 at 05:34:58 klx650sm2002 wrote:
Yeah, that would work, but what about rubbing on the bolts for the fender rail (saddle bag brackets)? |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by klx650sm2002 on 07/05/04 at 06:24:56 Yes there is that. Clive W |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by klx650sm2002 on 07/05/04 at 06:36:57 140/90/15 = 24.92 140/80/15 = 23.81 difference 1.11"on diameter or .555" more radius. Clive W |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by Greg_650 on 07/05/04 at 07:00:26 That is an increase of 4.6%...not quite enough for a speeding ticket as long as you aren't pushing the indicated speed anyway...it will effect the speedo accuracy. I guess 60 mph would be ~62-63 mph. That would make the seat 1/2" taller too, eh? |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by Jon on 07/05/04 at 10:40:26 > Anyone know and good tricks/ideas > to get Savages to go faster NOS It's fairly simple to hook up and very efficient. There are kits available, do a Google. It works this way: Install two jets between carb and engine. Each jet has a feed tube: one line goes to the NOS bottle's solenoid, the other to a small fuel pump which draws fuel from the tank (rig a T connector after the petcock). Wire the pump and solenoid to the horn button. Pressing the horn will inject gasoline and NOS into the manifold at the same time. Hold on. Note: the engine 'must' be spinning high revs when you activate the system. |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by gitarzan on 07/06/04 at 18:56:48 It's not the easiest thing to do, just like on ourselves... Weight Reduction. There are two types of weight to consider on a bike. Sprung and UNSprung weight. Unsprung weight is that which is below the springing. Lowering the unsprung weight results in better handling by having less momentum when the wheels bounce around causing the bike to have faster response to road variations. This one of the reasons why discs are drilled, aluminum wheels were made etc. There's not much you can do on the Savage AFAICT to reduce unsprung weight, maybe than remove the front fender and the belt cover on the rear. You could put on aluminum wheels, but that's probably a task that would be more trouble than it's worth. Sprung weight, of course, is anything above the suspension. the rear fender could go, the sissybar and side trim could go, and the stock muffler is also an easy choice and is quite heavy compared to a pipe or harley muffler. Other things might be the tool kit, side pans, air box, get smaller race styled handlebars, kickstand (if you're gonna race). I once saw a formula that equated pounds off to horsepower added but durned if I can find it now. It may have been in a book. When I rode an RD350 when I was about 25 I actually dieted to reduce pounds from the rider as well. Thats something I should still consider 25 years later, but i'v only added a pound a year, so that's not to bad, and the Savage IS torquey. ::) Hey, I found a calculator... http://www.amaprostar.com/dynos.asp It's kind of like back packing. I used to cut most of the handle off my toothbrush to lose an ounce. When I began backpacking, I toted 45 pounds on my back, by the time I stopped, I could pack in all I needed but had whittled it down to 23 pounds, a few ounces at a time. I guess you could do the same as well on your bike. Also, another thread from another world... http://www.sport-touring.net/cgi-bin/msgboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=6ec51f08bf47618695fa1c7b46d961ce;act=ST;f=4;t=17875;&#top |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by PRH111 on 07/06/04 at 22:11:46 As far as top speed weight reduction will have its limits. Firstly, lower weight means at higher speeds the aerodynamic lift will be worse and you will have a greater chance of meeting an untimely demise. Secondly, aerodynamic drag doesn't care about weight nearly as much as it does your frontal surface area and coefficient of drag (as far as keeping you from reaching a certain speed goal goes). Weight loss will increase acceleration, increase miles per gallon for city driving and hill climbing, decrease brake wear, decrease brake fade, decrease braking distance (this one will be the most limited in real life effects due to other factors and especially from where the weight is removed), increase handling agility. May have a very marginal increase in top end only if your current top speed is very limited due to a very heavy bike. In addition to exhuast and jets you could look into a K&N (and jets to support this and the exhaust), headwork (mostly port and polish as the valves already have a 3 angle cut on them from the factory), increase compression ratio (either a new custom piston from JE, arias, Wiseco, etc or from having your head performance shop weld in more material on the combustion chamber and reshape it for increased knock resistance and compression ratio). Cam regrind (billet would be better but a single camshaft done billet will cost you big bucks even if it is a small motorcycle camshaft). You could also turbocharge...but that would probably be an order of magnitude more difficult than getting the headwork and cam done. With proper planning and a good tuner working on the motor I see 50hp (flywheel) being a completely reasonable goal for this engine...not sure if the air cooling can keep up with that though. |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by PRH111 on 07/06/04 at 22:16:39 I just thought of two things that will reduce drag: Remove the front fender. Find a more aerodynamic front wheel. Either fewer spokes or simply a disc, or "mag" three spoke style wheel. Spoked wheels develop a lot of drag at high speeds. Reduction of drag on the front wheel will probably also make it more stable at high speeds...but crosswinds will have a greater effect on the front end with a solid disc front wheel (so I guess this means you should just increase your speed to compensate? :P ). |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by klx650sm2002 on 07/07/04 at 03:39:27 50 bhp sounds good but how do You get around that nasty exhaust port, We've been here before haven't we Greg. Clive W |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by za16866 on 07/07/04 at 07:52:24 ok... i really like the smaller rear sprocket idea.. does anyone know where to get one?......i believe even just a tooth or two different would make the bike so much more highway worthy.... or ? change 5th gear to a taller ratio? the drop of just 3oo or 4oo rpm at highway speeds would be wonderful.... |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by PRH111 on 07/07/04 at 09:46:36 klx650sm2002 wrote:
I haven't cracked open my motor yet so I'm not sure what is so nasty about the exhaust port...?? |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by LondonThing-co-uk on 07/07/04 at 10:27:12 as for a lighter bike, With the rear fender removed, and all ally front end, i can almost pick up the bike, well not quite but im sure much lighter than standard... Have a look www.londonthing.net/savage.htm ChrisF.. PS, bike is still for sale :-) |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by Greg_650 on 07/09/04 at 10:01:27 klx650sm2002 wrote:
True...the exhaust port that is squared off, and possibly has an oil passage running scross the top of it to prevent any serious grinding. (That project is still on the list for next winter). |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by PRH111 on 07/09/04 at 10:13:35 Hogging out ports by taking away a ton of material is the worst way to port. Good for flow bench numbers and engines that rev to 10,000rpm but not good for low revvers... You want to port in a manner that is conducive to low speed velocity being maintained. Line of sight is one easy method. Also, if you know a bit about fluid dynamics you can get a rough idea on what areas of the port could use some work the most. ...of course you could have already done all of the empirical testing necessary that validates the claim that the areas most needed to be ported for improved flow happen to be the areas where you cannot port due to intrusive oil passages. In this case why not just polish the exhuast port as much as possible and debur the factory casting errors...its better than nothing. |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by klx650sm2002 on 07/09/04 at 12:36:58 Have You looked at the exhaust port yet? Clive W |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by PRH111 on 07/09/04 at 13:29:43 I'm now going to put my EFI project on hold. I have been talking to the guy I go to for all my headwork needs (Dan Paramore down in Cali) and I am *tentaviely* planning to send my head down to him for his special touch. At that time I'll be able to look at the ports (when I tear it down) and he can give me his "professional" opinion. I'll do a dyno run before hand and after at the same place up here and we'll see what can be pulled out of the head. I am probably going to have him give me a "stage VI" job where he will radius blend the valves and seats (over the 3 angle job), polish and port intake and exhaust...intake polishing will be a very mild/rough polish, re-configure the combustion chamber for 9.5:1 CR and a cloverleaf style pentroof design for knock resistance, and other little tricks he has up his sleeves. Then we'll see what can be accomplished with just headwork, jardine slip on exhaust and re-jetting the carb (all else stock). |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by klx650sm2002 on 07/10/04 at 08:44:56 Hope it all works out for You, will You share the results with us. Clive W |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by PRH111 on 07/10/04 at 12:25:47 Definitely. If I were not sharing the results I probably wouldn't bother with the before and after dyno just because I already know the quality of this guys work from magazine articles and the results of the headwork he has done on my car. His headwork has set a new AMA 250 stock class record for hp. |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by Greg_650 on 07/11/04 at 04:02:58 PRH111 wrote:
"Hogging out" ports is not the method that we were planning. Using the "line of sight" idea was. The metal we were discussing is indeed in the line of sight. There is a rather intrusive flat casting part across the top of the exhaust which lies just inside the rather restrictive exhaust outlet....(I wish there was an easier method for posting photos).....and while looking at the lubrication schematic for the engine, I became aware of the possibility that an oil passage is contained in this area....an oil return from the top of the head cover. I have, infact, polished my intake port. That was easy once I removed the valves. The idea to port the exhaust only came after I installed the freer flowing Raask drag pipe in '03. Since I normally tear the bike apart during the winter, diving into the exhaust was placed on my '04 to do list. If you'd like a photo, I'll send it offlist. |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by PRH111 on 07/14/04 at 09:45:52 Yes, please send the images to my email. egarimnikuf at yahoo dot com |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by Greg_650 on 07/16/04 at 11:57:51 PRH111 wrote:
I'll do it.... |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by sunny on 07/19/04 at 12:56:49 PRH111 wrote:
as i am reading this i am thinking about my first time out on a longer highway ride this past saturday. i fought and fought the wind. and just did not feel like i was under control of the bike at 70mph. the bike and i together don't quite weigh 500 pounds. Quote:
or perhaps it was drag and not lack of weight? i was wearing a jacket with zippered vents all open. i know i can ride the bike and handle it, but i can't seem to get past 60 without being blown all over my lane. i know this is not your topic but it seems quite related in a tangent sort of way. |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by Greg_650 on 07/19/04 at 13:38:08 sunny wrote:
Do you have a windshield? Might reduce that feeling of being blown around.... |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by sunny on 07/19/04 at 13:47:06 Greg_650 wrote:
actually i do have a windshield but it seems small. much smaller than many aftermarket windshields i have seen. i take it perhaps i should look into getting a larger windshield then? |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by sunny on 07/20/04 at 07:18:20 Greg_650 wrote:
did some experimenting last night, and apparently, riding with all my jacket's vents open was the primary cause of the feeling of being blown around. after closing all the front vents i had no problem doing 65-70 mph on the highway. i will still look for a larger windshield though. |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by Greg_650 on 07/20/04 at 12:20:18 sunny wrote:
That gives me a vision of a parachute strapped to the handlebars :P |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by sunny on 07/20/04 at 13:36:03 Greg_650 wrote:
somewhat accurate vision. the jacket has two torso vents in the front, two front upper arm vents, and two torso vents in the back, all vertical. i theorized that the arm vents were the main problem, but i closed all the front vents and all was well. no more parabiking for me. |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by Greg_650 on 07/21/04 at 14:23:49 sunny wrote:
::) |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by Savvyge on 09/07/04 at 21:51:16 Chris - Aerodynamics and weight reduction apart, the easiest way to give your Savage more speed off the line is to richen the fuel mixture from idle up to mid-range. It will take two meaures, one pretty easy, the other trickier, but both cost nothing. The first is to turn the pilot circuit (idle) fuel mix screw out 1/4 turn. This screw is located just behind the intake manifold high ion the right side of the carburetor. If it still has the brass poug covering it ask a bike mechanic to remove it for you. The second, and most important measure is to richen the CV needle jet (mid-range) circuit fuel mix. To do this you need to disassemble the carburetor, which means removing the seat and the tank (sigh) but if you're going to be a true Savage man you need to know the way to the heart of your beast. You definitely need the Clymer manual to attempt this part. Take apart the CV piston/diaphragm slide assembly and remove the white plastic spacer which pushes the jet needle out farther and makes the CV circuit run so lean. Unlike those who advocate tossing this spacer, I'd suggest you thin the thickness of this spacer 50%, from the stock 2.5 mm to about 1.1 mm using a flat file, and re-install it. You will find new strength in your Savage. It may look the same and sound almost the same but oh, does it run better! |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by klx650sm2002 on 09/08/04 at 04:51:40 I think we've heard this before somewhere. Thanks anyway. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Faster savage?? Post by Greg_650 on 09/08/04 at 08:32:30 With 278 Topics so far it is hard to tell where this has been discussed. Either in "Rejetting and Emissions" or "Backfiring". I forget. Where ever it was stated that a #4 washer from Radio Shack would work, I think. |
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